Women in Leadership

1. Tell me about your background and career journey.

I’m the Group Executive for Wealth Management at the Commonwealth Bank and have been in this position since October 2011. I look after CommInsure, Colonial First State, Colonial First State Global Asset Management and our advice businesses. Wealth Management accounts for about 13% of the operating profit of the bank.

I came out of University and I knew that I really enjoyed working with people as well as being absolutely fascinated with numbers. Fresh out of an Economics/Law degree at Sydney University, I chose to work for a bank, where I have enjoyed quite a lot of different experiences. I’ve worked in Capital Markets, I’ve worked in M&A, I’ve worked in Asset Management and I’ve worked in Strategy and Treasury.

2. Did you have a plan when you started out?

I didn’t envisage needing a plan, I just envisaged a role that I would enjoy. A role that allowed me to be the best that I could be in and something that took advantage of my love of numbers and my love of working with people.

3. Have you had to make any compromises along the way?

For me, this is pretty simple – there are just some compromises that I will not make. I won’t make compromises around personal integrity, and my view of service to the community. I grew up in a family where these were the fundamental, bedrock principles to life and they have served me well throughout my career. They resonate particularly well with what I do at the Commonwealth Bank.

4. Have you had mentors and role models?

I’ve really been fortunate with the people that I’ve worked around and that I have worked for. I’ve learned from them what to do and in some cases, what not to do. Some I’ve watched and some have given me really frank feedback. Through all of that, what I value most is their friendship.

5. How would you define success?

If you look at every role that you play in life, the three important things are work, family and friends and service to the community. My definition of success sits in these three buckets. At work, success is doing something that has a deeper purpose and that is interesting. A deeper purpose in my current role is easy to explain – we provide advice and we help people think about their future. This is critical.

With family and friends, it’s simple. Happy and healthy family and friends is vitally important. Finally in regard to community, anyone who is lucky enough to have a successful life has a duty to serve the community. I sit on the board of the Salvation Army and this is an important role for me.

6. What do you see as some of the major barriers for women in regard to career progression?

Coming back to Australia after having spent quite a lot of time in America one thing that has struck me is the lack of accessible and affordable childcare. This is an issue for every parent, but particularly women who have already taken some time out of the workforce to have their children. I’m not sure what the solution is, but this is a real problem for the country.

I think that in respect to women particularly, there is also the issue of self-perception that can be a real barrier. A recent UK study that looked at students coming out of University and applying for the same role showed that 45% of the female graduates thought that they had the necessary qualities for the role, compared to 59% of male graduates, even though the women had significantly higher grades that would suggest that they were more qualified. So self-perception and self-confidence can be a real barrier for women in the workplace.

I think that in respect to women particularly, there is also the issue of self perception that can be a real barrier. A recent UK study looking at students coming out of University and applying for the same role showed that 45% of the female graduates thought that they had the necessary qualities for the role, compared to 59% of male graduates, even though the women had significantly higher grades that would suggest that they were more qualified. So self perception and self confidence can be a real barrier for women in the workplace.

7. What, if any, unhelpful assumptions do organisations have about ambitious women?

I think that we have passed that stage now. Very few people hold conscious assumptions about women. The broader challenge in this discussion is about unconscious assumptions and unconscious bias. My belief is that most people want to do the right thing, and by opening their eyes to possible unconscious biases that they might hold, makes a big difference.

A large number of Commonwealth Bank executives have now undertaken unconscious bias training and I think that this has been a large part of our progress towards meeting our gender targets and how we think about filling roles.

8. What is your view regarding gender quotas and targets?

I think it is important that people are free to put the right person in a specific role. There should always be a meritocracy at work and there should always be an environment where the right person is placed in the right role.

But I do think that targets have a value, as a metric and as a measure of progress. Targets need to be paired with policies that support them, so that it is not just a number. In regard to recruitment, it’s about having a woman on the decision panel and at least one woman in the pool of candidates. Targets need to be paired with gender pay equity reviews at remuneration time. Targets need to be paired with policies around return to work and parental leave. Targets also need to be paired with policies regarding flexible work practices in order to be most effective.

9. What do you think organisations need to do better to attract, retain and promote women?

It’s about long term, multi-pronged commitment – and that commitment needs to start from the most senior levels of the organisation. The commitment also needs to convey the message that this is a business imperative that is about attracting diversity of thought and perspectives; reflects the diversity of our clients;realises the potential of our talent; and makes people happy to work here. I want people to be able to bring their whole self to work every day.

I think that organisations play a role in ensuring that there are policies and practices in place to assist women. One thing is to ensure that organisations have a diverse representation of candidates applying for roles as well as having a diverse selection panel when reviewing applicants. This forces the conversation about what the organisation is really looking for and who could possibly perform the role. It forces organisations to look further afield for quality candidates.

10. What advice would you give young women starting their career?

Have a go. Stick your hand up and say “I’ll do that”. Assume you can do it and then find someone who can help you do it. There are opportunities everywhere if you are willing to give it a go.

1. What is your current role?

My current role is Group CFO for Coca-Cola Amatil. The key stakeholders I manage are the shareholders, the Managing Director, the Board, the ASX and other regulatory bodies as well as a whole range of management personnel across our business. Coca-Cola Amatil is a business that has a lot going on across different channels in many different countries. There is always plenty happening.

There is something critical about my background that has stood me in great stead - I was the youngest of four girls growing up in Ireland. The Irish are a lot like the Australians - we are very comfortable challenging the status quo, which means that people have a view that they can do anything. I have three older sisters, one is a doctor, one is a lawyer, and the other one is a psychologist. I grew up in a family of fabulous women. None of us thought we were anything too special, but neither did we think there was anything we couldn’t do.

I completed a degree in Commerce and a post graduate degree in Finance. I then completed my Chartered Accountants degree. After a short stint in New York and working in Sydney, I made the mistake of joining a company that had a culture that did not lend itself to creating interesting career paths or developing their people. I really learned a lot from that experience.

I joined Coca-Cola Amatil seven years ago. We have a fantastic Board which supports diversity and a Managing Director who is committed to challenging the norms of a male dominated environment. I’ve been given opportunities to lead projects, which has provided me with a great path to demonstrate my capabilities, so people are able to take a calculated risk on me when the next opportunity arises.

2. What were some of the challenges you have faced along the way?

I think one of the biggest learnings for me early on was that I was focused on defining my role, and doing really well within my role - I was missing the big picture. I really hadn’t spent enough time understanding the perspectives of key stakeholders in the business. Because of that, I limited my ability to be able to add value and be part of key decision making. Getting the outside perspective from my bosses and mentors was really valuable in growing my career.

Communicating the value you add to an organisation is also important. When I returned from maternity leave I was promoted rather than sidelined as a lot of people do when they return from a period of leave. The reason that I was promoted is that my bosses realised whilst I was away, just how much I did – something that I wasn’t communicating well whilst I was in the role.

3. How would you define success?

I think my definition of success has changed over the years. When I first started out success was about doing well in a particular job. Now, I have a much broader view of success. Success is much more about what value I have added and what my legacy has been. It is also about what difference there has been in the organisation because of my leadership and what capability I have left behind in the organisation.

I want to know that what I have changed adds sustainable value to the business and has developed talent in the business.

4. What inspires you on a day-to-day basis?

Working with bright, smart people who are open to being challenged by what we are doing today and who are really passionate about wanting to win. We have a huge amount of capability across the business. I recently worked with a team of engineers on a project to make our own bottles across the business. Being able to have access to people who have a totally different background to mine and see the world in a totally different way was inspiring. Being able to see their creativity and innovation in action inspires me to think about how we can team better and lead more change.

5. What role has mentors and sponsors played in your life?

If you want to grow your career, you have to think about who the gate keepers are and who the people are making the decisions about who gets through the gate. You need to have someone who you respect, who understands the organisation and who you know will give you honest feedback that you prepared to listen to and do something about.

This is a great way to avoid having to go through every single experience yourself, and it is amazing how generous people are, when you ask for input and advice. There is no way I would have grown my career, or had the opportunities that I’ve had, without being able to get advice from a range of different mentors. The most powerful thing a mentor has said to me on a number of different occasions throughout my career is “you can do this”.

6. What do you see as some of the major barriers for women to career progression?

There are some organisations where it’s hard to see how a woman is going to run her career once they have a family. I think that every senior woman who has taken parental leave has come across this. Men don’t face the same issue. People assume that when men have children, it makes them even more focused on growing their career. Some organisations presume that when women have children, they have decided that they don’t see a career being important. I think this perception is particularly dangerous because it means that organisations are making decisions with short-term views.

What worked for me at the time when I had my son was to hire a nanny. I had a big mortgage and financial pressures but having a nanny was a decision I made so that I could invest in myself and my career. It meant that I had to re-prioritise what was important to me. It meant that I went without holidays and new clothes and a new car – but I invested in what was important to me.

I think there are still a lot of challenges for more junior women as some organisations just aren’t used to having women in the mix. For these organisations, getting a few women on board is culturally quite a big step. For this change in culture to occur, there needs to be support from the top tiers of the organisation with management being held accountable for making the change happen.

Being able to attract and retain good people is difficult – even for a top ASX company with a fantastic brand and fantastic job opportunities. The logic of not developing a vision to include everyone for consideration for a role is wrong. The business case for diversity is clear – it’s not just about doing the right thing, it’s good for the organisation.

7. What, if any, unhelpful assumptions do organisations make about ambitious women?

Part of the training and coaching of more junior women needs to include how to manage conversations and how to articulate and communicate their ambitions. Women need to ask for help, not just from their immediate boss but from an expanded network within the organisation. This will mean that they will be less dependent on just one person deciding what opportunities they are good enough to tackle.

So I think it is incumbent on women to take control of the agenda. Because if there are road blocks, and you aren’t being given a fair go, you need to try and explore other possibilities for better opportunities within the organisation. Doing your due diligence in regard to the culture of the organisation that you are joining is vital for women in particular.

8. How do you influence change?

You must first understand what it is that you want to change and then pick your battles. You are not going to change everything. You have to then start the dialogue and engage with people who can support you. You can’t always be a one person warrior trying to make the change on your own. Sometimes what you may think is important to change, may not be and by engaging cross functionally, you gain a better understanding of why people are behaving in the way that they are.

You then need to make a case for change – you cannot assume that people will want to change for changes sake. You have to be able to sell your idea to get others on board.

9. What is your view regarding gender quotas and targets?

I think they may be necessary – unless organisations can show a real commitment to enabling diversity. There comes a point when an organisation won’t change no matter the business case – in this circumstance you may need to mandate change - to benefit individuals coming through as well as the organisation.

There has been an enormous shift in Australia in terms of inclusion of women and I think that this is a fantastic time for anybody who has daughters. There is a lot of noise about the representation for women on boards and women in senior roles. The more this happens, the less there will be a need to mandate quotas.

The discussion that I sometimes find frustrating is when organisations say that can’t find suitably qualified women to sit on their board. My response is that they haven’t looked hard enough. There are a lot of capable, qualified women who may not be as well networked as the people who are currently in those roles – but they are out there. Organisations just have to look broader to find them.

10. What do you think organisations need to do better to attract, retain and promote women?

We should encourage organisations to take more of a calculated risk in promoting women. Organisations take calculated risks with men all the time. When I started in my current role, I went from a non-public company to a publically listed company as the CFO. Coca-Cola Amatil was very supportive in taking a risk when there was some discussion as to whether I had the right experience dealing with investors. They could have gone outside the organisation where there was a long list of CFOs who had public company experience. They had seen me in the organisation and were prepared to back me and they were prepared to work with me in developing an appropriate career plan.

1. Tell us something interesting about yourself.

Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor.

2. What do you like most about working at EY?

Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor.

3. What has inspired you in your professional life?

Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor.

4. What is the best piece of advice that you received that you would like to impart to others?

Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor.

5. What do Australian organisations need to do to better engage with professional women?

Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor.

1. Could you tell us about your business and how you got started?

My background is that I am a rehabilitation counsellor. Ingeus is founded on principles of psychology which address reversing helplessness and helping people to flourish. We are the largest and preeminent provider of ‘welfare to work’ services. We started in Australia but we are currently delivering services in the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Sweden, Switzerland, Poland, South Korea and Saudi Arabia.

We assist people to transition from long-term unemployment, and feeling like they have no hope of ever re-entering the work force to being in decent, lasting work. We assist people to go from having no confidence in themselves or their capacity to contribute, to being confident and being valued for their contribution.

The service that Ingeus provides is not just about finding people jobs – it’s transformational work. We assist people who have had injuries, to work out what they can do, what they would enjoy doing and what gives them energy, by helping them design action plans and assisting them to build the courage to implement these plans.

We directly employ about 2,500 people, in 11 countries. And we indirectly provide employment to 3,500 additional people such as sub-contractors.

2. How did you make the step from being a rehabilitation counsellor to running your own successful business?

I was originally employed by another organisation, and discovered they were engaging in what we might call sharp practices. I resigned on the spot, as integrity is very important to me. The organisation was renting rooms from a physiotherapist in South Brisbane and when I resigned I went to speak to her to let her know that I would no longer be working there.

She asked me whether I had ever considered setting up my own company, which I hadn’t. She let me know that if I ever decided to, she would happily invest in my company. She believed that South East Brisbane needed an ethical, vocational rehabilitation provider. She told me that she believed that I could do it and that got me thinking. At the time, I had no business training. I has studied constitutional law at University and had some knowledge of legal methods and contracts and some knowledge in commercial law, but no direct business knowledge.

So I took an A4 piece of paper and mind mapped what a counsellor, a psychologist and an occupational therapist could do, how much they would cost each month, what kind of services they could deliver and whether there was any money left over at the end of each month. What I actually did, which I now understand, was put together a profit and loss cash flow budget – but really at the time, I just made it up.

This was not something that I ever thought of doing. But having someone say that they believe in you was immensely enabling. When I discussed the plan with my husband Kevin, he was very supportive, including the fact that I needed to borrow $7,800 from the bank and secure the loan against our house. He said that he thought that I would be really good at running this kind of business. So now, I had two people telling me that they believed in what I was trying to do – and this was immensely important.

3. Have you had to make any compromises along the way?

We are a very mission based organisation. The drive to achieve the mission, helping people to aspire, to believe in themselves, is of primary importance to us. We are a very values based organisation as well. Our values are - excellence with integrity. Excellence means challenging ourselves to do things better. Excellence is also about asking ourselves whether we can deliver more transformation to more people. We are continually learning. We don’t want to promise things that we can’t deliver. Being accountable and transparent is really important. That is something that we won’t compromise on. What this has meant over time is that sometimes we have had to walk away from business opportunities. We have been uncompromising in the tension between values, purpose, and opportunity.

So where have the compromises been? For me, there has always been a compromise between aspiration and practicality of implementation. Sometimes I say to myself that it would have been nice to have had this yesterday, but the practicalities do not always align with my aspirations and sometimes this feels like adjustment and compromise.

The other compromise has had to do with running a growing business and all that that entails and ensuring that I don’t lose sight of the things that are most important to me. Each year, I sit down with my diary and circle my children’s birthdays, my husband’s birthday, our anniversary, Christmas and Easter. These are sacrosanct family days and I plan the year around these days.

The reality is that my house was not always clean, my clothes were not always ironed, and as soon as I could afford to outsource these chores, I did. There are people who are much more competent at cooking and gardening than I am. Finding the balance was really important in my personal relationships and not sweating over the small stuff. It wasn’t me working in the school tuck shop and it wasn’t me making the slice for the children to take to school. But it was me reading to the children, it was me building a solid relationship with them and it was me loving them. I burnt the perfectionist stick that a lot of women beat themselves up with.

4. What do you think Australian organisations need to do better to attract, retain and promote women?

I think a lot of organisations are starting to change. Many organisations want to support people as they deal with being pulled in different directions such as family commitments and work requirements. Someone who has, for example an elderly mum who is sick and no longer coping with living independently, that is really stressful for people. If an organisation doesn’t consider these stresses on people’s lives they won’t get the best levels of productivity from their people or the best levels of diversity within their organisation.

The Federal Government’s move to paid parental leave was also a very good first step to assist people starting their families. Organisations need to have real discussions with their employees about their personal needs as well. For example, when a woman is going to have a baby, there needs to be a real discussion about what she wants - does she want to come back part-time or full-time and approximately when. There needs to be an acknowledgement that any decision will depend what the family unit looks like and what can realistically be expected. Offering flexibility is helpful. Staying in touch with the individual whilst they are away from work is also helpful. Offering access to training, to continuing professional development and keeping them involved in the goings on of the office are all very important. Really thinking about the re-onboarding is crucial.

5. What is your view on the introduction of targets and quotas?

This is a leadership question. Senior ranks in organisations should take a positive decision that they will have a balance within their organisation that is representative of the community. Changing the makeup and culture of an organisation might feel a bit awkward, and it might feel a bit new, but senior leadership can decide to make that change.

Should leaders in organisations and the communities need a quota imposed on them? No, I don’t think that they do. The problem with quotas is that there will be questions asked as to how people made it to positions of leadership. An example that I have is a friend of mine who is an African American, who in the early 1980’s won admission to Harvard, without any mention of his ethnicity in the application. Many people at Harvard thought he was there on a quota. He walked around with that burden for the entire time he was there, repeatedly having to explain himself.

Quotas can be avoided if we, as leaders, take responsibility to get diversity right.

If we are talking about targets, we should be aiming to normalise female representation on boards and in senior executive positions in organisations. 35% - 40% seems to the tipping point of normality. This is when there are almost equal numbers around the decision making table, where women are no longer an oddity. This is when people start relating to another not as women or men, but as colleagues – a group of people with a diverse range of views, thinking styles, leadership styles, and collaboration styles and that is going to give us the best possible outcome. With the right focus, we should be able to achieve these numbers in the next five years.

1. What is your current role?

Currently, I am a Non-Executive Director on four ASX companies. I am also on the board of the Victorian Opera Company and on the Council of the National Library of Australia.

I initially started out reading Science at University, doing a joint honours degree in Biochemistry and Physiology. I was in the UK at the time and I had a great deal of difficulty choosing what degree to do. I did my degree without any burning desire to do science. A number of my friends had gone into Accountancy and since my father was an Accountant, as was my fiancé, I decided to try it. I did a training contract with a firm called Pannell Kerr Forster (PKF) and this was a fortunate choice for me. I’ve never regretted it for a moment, and in fact, I think it is a terrific way to start out a career in business – a tremendous foundation for everything that followed thereafter.

After I qualified, I took on a technical training role where I designed and delivered most of the technical training for the firm in the British Isles. My husband and I decided that, as it would take another six or seven years before either of us would make partner in a professional services firm, we would come to Australia. I transferred to Australia with PKF but after 15 months in the audit practice, I applied for a role with Arthur Andersen as Training Manager with the view to developing a consulting practice in education. I built up the business to 500 people in a fairly short space of time across Asia-Pacific. With the split of the consulting practice from Arthur Andersen, I moved to Accenture and carried on developing the Human Performance Service Line. I pursued the rest of my career with Accenture – firstly heading up the Communications and High Technology Industry Group and later running the whole of Accenture’s business in Asia-Pacific. Towards the end of my time with Accenture I joined the board of the Commonwealth Bank and following my retirement, I also joined the boards of Tabcorp, Santos, the Council of the National Library and the Victorian Opera Company. In 2011 I also joined the board of Lend Lease.

Looking back, my key career dot points are I got started with a job in a bank, I went to University as a mature age student and at 26 was headhunted into Macquarie Bank. I then went to Citibank and ran a division that was bringing Asian investors into Australia. After this I set up my own business Venture Group that ended up merging with AFG.

2. Have you had to make any compromises along the way?

I think compromise is not the way I would phrase it. There were choices I made in my life. For example, I chose not to have children. Having a family at the time that I was developing my career would have been extraordinarily difficult. I know that other women have managed it, but I don’t think I could have been one of them.

Interestingly, my only sibling is 13 years younger than I am and my late husband’s brother is 13 years younger than he was. Both of us had experienced, at an impressionable age, what it was really like to have a small child around and that gave us a more jaundiced view of having children.

This choice enabled me to pursue a career that involved a lot of travelling. One compromise that I did make was to commit to a life of constant travel. This meant that it was difficult to build a network in Australia when I was on the road as much as I was. When I had a spell as Accenture’s Country Managing Partner for Australia, it meant that I started from scratch trying to build a local network.

Constant travel is also hard on a relationship. To mitigate this I had rules for my working life. I was never away for more than one weekend at a time. I also set some rules in regard to conference calls which I wouldn’t do between midnight and 6:00am. These rules were important to keep me sane.

3. What drives and inspires you?

Firstly the intellectual content of what I’m doing is really important to me and always has been. I like learning things, I like sorting through fairly knotty situations. I find that interesting. Also, one of the things that I love to do is teach and coach, and watch people develop. I find it inspiring to see people come into an organisation and grow - to take up jobs they perhaps thought they couldn’t do.

4. How has your definition of success changed throughout your career?

When you first start out, you always want to run to what’s next. There is always that ambition to be a Manager or a Partner or a CEO. About half way through my career as a Partner I started looking for things that were interesting and would allow me to do interesting work. That was then more important to me than a certain position.

5. What role have mentors and sponsors played in your life?

Mentors have played an enormous role in my life. I was fortunate that both Arthur Andersen and Accenture were very values-driven organisations. One of the values that was constant, through all iterations of the organisations, was the value placed on stewardship - to leave the place better than you found it.

That included people doing a really fine job of evaluating your performance and helping you to grow. The counsellors always considered what role you should be involved in next and what would be good for your career. My mentors and sponsors also gave me the feedback that I needed to grow my career and made an effort to watch out for me. This is what was done not just for me, but for everyone. I have been very fortunate.

6. What do you see as some of the major barriers for women in regard to career progression?

I think that one of the key problems is the assumption that you have to be totally qualified for your next position before you put your hand up for it. Some women have a lack of confidence in putting themselves forward.

When I first made Partner, I remember sitting in meetings, listening to my male colleagues and thinking “I could have said that’, but I didn’t say it and it was a missed opportunity. I also allowed myself to be put upon and piled up with a lot of work. I remember thinking “they must think I can do it, if they continue to give me more work”. A male colleague pointed out to me that if I didn’t tell someone how overloaded I was, I would continue to be given more work to do. So that is what I did. I went to my boss at the time and said that I was overloaded and his reply was that he had been wondering how long it would take for me to notice. He wasn’t going to do anything until I recognised and took responsibility for the problem.

This was an important lesson – you have to speak up and stand up for yourself.

7. What, if any, unhelpful assumptions do organisations make about ambitious women?

I think that there are some unhelpful assumptions that organisations make about women, period. When someone in a team has caring responsibilities, there is an assumption that they won’t be able to travel. This may be true, but the question should at least be asked rather than assumptions made. Sometimes you can be very surprised by the answers you get when you ask the question.

8. What do you think organisations need to do to better attract, retain and promote women?

One of the things that really needs to be thought through, is the issue of caring responsibilities. Like it or not, women tend to be the primary care givers for both children as well as elderly parents. Organisations need to work out ways to manage this fact, such as flexible working.

Although many organisations have improved over the last 20 years, there are still organisations which cannot understand how part-timers or flexible workers can also be considered high potential employees. I believe this to be very short sighted. To some extent I think that it is generational – men seem to be much more thoughtful about these issues today then they ever have been. One of the catalysts for the changing mindset in men often correlates with them having daughters.

9. What is your view regarding gender quotas and targets?

Targets yes. Quotas no. That is my thumbnail view. I think that the ASX have a done a terrific job in setting targets and requiring an explanation when these targets are not met. This is exactly the right way to go about driving change. I get very nervous about quotas as I think that the danger in setting quotas is that they breed resentment.

1. What is your current position and how long have you been in the role?

I am the Group CEO of AFG Venture Group. We do mergers, acquisitions, divestments, fund raising, licensing, joint ventures and strategic financial work. We have offices in India, Thailand, Singapore and Indonesia. We are bridging multiple cultures, multiple wisdom systems and multiple time zones. Flexibility, open mindedness and the ability to deal with complexity, ambiguity and to find connection rather than difference is critical.

Looking back, my key career dot points are I got started with a job in a bank, I went to University as a mature age student and at 26 was headhunted into Macquarie Bank. I then went to Citibank and ran a division that was bringing Asian investors into Australia. After this I set up my own business Venture Group that ended up merging with AFG.

2. Do you think that women ‘play it safe’ and don’t take risks in regard to their careers?

Women who have their own businesses usually have a higher success rate than men, (research backs this up) but the majority don’t go onto to be big businesses - they stay small. There are circumstances to contain the size of a business but I feel more women should be confident in their ability to be able to create larger enterprises. You don’t have to go out and risk the world but there are times when you can risk more and should.

My view is we shouldn’t be afraid to make mistakes. The idea is to make as many mistakes as you can but make them early and quickly so they can be treated as part of the process and in an iterative way. We need to be able to say that this hasn’t worked, here are the reasons why and then move on.

3. Have you faced obstacles during your career?

Not really. My career has been so unorthodox. I have a view that if a road is blocked, then there must be another way around – another way to get there. As Ralph Waldo Emerson said “Every wall is a door”. I believe this and the difficulty is only the capacity to see the door so we can walk through it.

You don’t have to be a part of the executive team or a CEO or a director to make incredible changes, we can all make changes for the better from where we stand. But that is a decision that we all have to make – will I be part of the solution or continue to be part of the unsatisfactory status quo. If you’ve reached a point where you really feel blocked, and feel that you are not being appreciated or valued, then I think it’s time to move organisations or roles.

4. Have you had mentors and role models who have been part of your journey?

In regard to mentors, I always look for people older than me who I believe in and who I like and respect. I particularly am attracted to older people who are not only leaders in their field but who also have a sense of humour, who are joyful and who have a spring in their step. There have been and still are incredible women creating incredible change in the Australian landscape – so we can all add to that work. There’s incredible generosity of spirit that mentoring requires and if we have received the benefit of mentoring I feel we must ‘pay it forward’.

5. How can women overcome the barriers they may face in their careers?

One of the things I really support is to reveal who you are. When you reveal who you are, people will start to understand you and you can more easily play to your strengths. There is a cookie cutter version of what it is you do – accountant, banker, lawyer – whatever you are – and then there’s your version – and if you can, I recommend sticking to your version. I agree with Oscar Wilde “Be yourself, everybody else is already taken”.

I believe we need to be cognisant of our language – the stories we tell ourselves and tell others about us. My observation is that sometimes the language we use to tell our stories is not very empowering. I think we need to be quite powerful in saying I’m here, this is who I am, this is what I do and you are lucky to have me working for you.

6. What is your definition of success?

My definition of success is a lot broader than work; it means to have a place where you feel at home in the world, where you feel connected, where you know this is where you belong, where you are making a difference, where you are loved. So it’s not about what I achieve, it’s actually about who I am and my connectedness.

What do you think Australian organisations should be doing to better attract, retain and promote women?

A lot of it is just acknowledging the importance of diversity because to me diversity is beyond the male/female. Organisations must embrace diversity as our stakeholders that we are serving, the customers that we are working with, the shareholders that we are representing, are the same as the general population. What we have to do is make sure that our internal structures are mirroring society.

The situation where organisations are serving a market but are not consuming or behaving like that market is astounding to me. We need to be putting diverse people from the market around the boardroom table in order for the organisation to be effective and successful.

7. Do you have a view on gender targets and quotas?

I agree with it as an interim solution. My view is if you want to create a change, this is an effective temporary change mechanism to get more female voices around the table. We need to create change and targets and quotas are a good mechanism as any to create that change, so let’s just do it and see what happens.

1. What is your current role and how did you get started?

My current position is senior vice president of corporate at Woodside. My portfolio includes; Government Affairs, Community Affairs, Internal Communications, Human Resources including Industrial Relations and Health and Safety, which is a critical area in our business – so quite a broad role.

I have been in my current position since December 2011.

2. Was this the role you saw yourself in when you started out?

When I first started out, I was happy to have a job, so I really didn’t have a big career plan or a vision of a career. I left school at 15. I grew up in a lower socioeconomic area, and the thing that we were taught in our final month of third year was how to fill in the dole form. So my ambition at that point was to never go on the dole. I joined Woodside over 23 years ago in an accounts administrative role and I’ve slowly progressed through the organisation into a senior executive role, where I am today.

3. Have you made any compromises along the way?

I wouldn’t use the term compromise. I’ve certainly worked very hard, but that wasn’t necessarily driven by ambition. I choose to do well. So to be good at what I do, I need to put quite a lot of my time and effort and energy into my work. I wouldn’t say I’ve made compromises, I’ve just chosen to do what I’ve wanted to do, because I like to do things well.

Both my parents are very hard working people. I don’t think hard work was drummed into me, I think it was bred into me.

4. How do you define success?

I think over more recent years, I’m starting to recognise that I would be considered successful at my job. Success to me is about a sense that I’ve done a good job. But it is not just about work, if I think about my entire life, success is when all of the elements of my life are going well so I have a sense of calm about my life.

5. Have you had mentors and role models along the way?

In the past eight years I’ve had two really key people that saw potential in me and really coached and mentored me and provided me with professional opportunities, I don’t think I would have succeeded without their belief in me.

Having mentors is very important. But it’s not the whole recipe; it’s just one of the ingredients. You have to have the capability to do the job and you have to work hard. You’ve got to be prepared to push yourself. A lot of women, however, underestimate their capability and having someone that believes in your capability is a key ingredient for success.

6. What do you think the major barriers are for women advancing in an organisation?

It is a very complex question. I think some of the barriers are self-imposed ie. women not seeing the possibilities of their capability. I also don’t think traditional talent identification and talent promotion systems go looking for people that don’t promote themselves. Without wanting to stereotype, more often than not, women will be non-promoters. For me that is quite an important point.

Getting past the biases is not easy either. Women who do promote themselves aren’t always viewed favourably.

7. What do you think Australian organisations need to do to better attract, retain and promote women?

There is a lot more untapped capability and talent in women than a lot of organisations realise. Organisations may, however need to look for that talent a little harder than they do with men.

Women also need to become more assertive with their careers.

8. How do you influence change in your environment?

We’ve had a gender diversity plan at Woodside since 2005. Every few years we refresh it and push the boundaries of it. Over the years we have also engaged more and more with senior male executives on the issue of gender equity. Many people need to be influenced over a period of time. Often, it can’t be rammed down people’s throats.

At Woodside, we now have a solid, sustainable foundation of good gender diversity practices as well a good level of engagement with senior people. Although our statistics may not yet reflect it, we are starting to get the right building blocks in place to support gender diversity.

9. Do you think that women taking time out of the workforce influences an organisation when they are identifying talent?

Absolutely. Whether you’re having children or whether you’re going off to do something else in your life, if you’re not in the workforce, you just haven’t had the same amount of experience - that is reality.

We must invest in people, through every stage in their life, because in five years time, if we’ve done all the right things to support that person, we will reap the rewards.

I often make the point, you’re career is thirty years long, if you need to take some time out of it to look after family and your career needs to take a back seat for while, that’s OK. In the grand scheme of things, your career is long, so don’t get too hung up on what happens for one sixth of that time. Really try and play the long game.

10. What is your view on targets and quotas?

I think having quotas mandated from above is absolutely the wrong thing, because it doesn’t take into account the nuances of an industry or an organisation or of the women that exist within that organisation. I think that it’s a lazy way of driving change.

I do believe though that companies should set targets or metrics, because we know that what we measure gets done.

I don’t think you should just measure the outcome though. If you have a gender diversity plan in place, you need to be able to measure the elements that are going to get you to the ultimate objective.

I treat gender plans like any other major cultural change management exercise. You can’t go from zero to one hundred miles per hour in one conversation. You have to build the understanding of the issues. Keep the emotion out of it and use the statistics and research and build the momentum for change.

1. What is the background to Charm Health, how did you get started?

CHARM Health is a small-to-medium enterprise and we develop software that is used in hospitals by doctors, nurses, pharmacists and clerical staff to minimise the risk to patients around their clinical care.

The company started in 2000 when I was a director of pharmacy and I was in the final stages of completing a Masters in IT. What I saw at the time was a high risk associated with the management of cancer patients. The management of the treatment for cancer patients was all paper based – calculating dosages manually and then dealing with complex therapies with no back-up system apart from someone else double checking notes. This is what really drove me to start writing a program in oncology.

I started thinking that it would take me six months to write the program. In fact, it took me three years to get the first product to market and then gradually continued to grow the company to the point we have it now.

We currently have 45 cancer centres that use the software with another 65 sites that have their cancer pharmacy managed by our software.

2. Did you have a plan when you first started out?

No. I was very naive. I was a pharmacist who was finishing an IT degree and I saw a gap in the marketplace. I took three months off work to write the program and then realised that the whole project could be a lot bigger than I originally thought. I had an amazing breakthrough at the six month mark and just kept my head down until I got the project finished – which was three years later.

I really had no idea how I was going to run the business. In hindsight I don’t really know what I was thinking at the time, just that there was a need, and I knew that I could do it. So I just did it.

3. Have you had to make any compromises along the way?

I’ve compromised everywhere. When I started writing this software, I set out to do something, and it was harder than I thought. But I knew that I couldn’t quit, I had to keep going. In 2005, I had my first child – the day after the Mater Health Services in Brisbane were going live with my software. I only had three other staff working with me and an IT person who had started the same day that my son was born.

With the support of my family, I just kept working and had two more children in the following four years.

When you have a vision and you know what you can achieve, it’s very hard to only do half the job. I had to give it my best and do what it took to get it over the line.

I would look after my family, and then work at night when my children were sleeping. I would tag team with my husband and hand over the kids for him to look after when he got home from work. We would do this every day, seven days a week – so yes, I have had to compromise. I remember leaving my sister’s wedding before my 100 year old grandmother.

In regard to my children, the long day care system just didn’t work for us. We’ve always had fantastic people who have come into our lives and really helped us out. Our kids get so much of all of us at different times and from different people, they seem very well adjusted and happy.

4. Has your definition of success changed over time?

Nothing I had ever done was about how much money I was going to make. Whilst my end goal has never been about financial success, for a business to be successful, it really boils down to having a strong bottom line.

Success to me is also having the reputation of delivering a high quality product and making a difference. Success is also about leaving a legacy – something I can pass down to others.

5. Have you had any mentors and role models along the way?

Yes, definitely. I had people who I held regular meetings with and put together a board-like structure with. They were my access to advice, support and a shoulder to cry on. Even today, I have business mentors advising me and supporting me.

6. What inspires and drives you?

I would have to say the opportunity to make a huge difference in how things are done in health. 15 years ago, there was a study done which highlighted that in hospitals over 300 patients die every two weeks due to errors. This is a ridiculous statistic – this is comparable to a jet crashing every two weeks. I want not only to see this statistic drop considerably, but I want safety to be the absolute key to patient treatment. Our new platform puts patient safety as the absolute priority.

7. What do you see as some of the major barriers for women to career progression?

I think that it’s really hard for women who have both a career and a family. Unless you are fortunate like me and they run your own business - the juggling becomes difficult. There is a lot of talk and a lot of change going on in workplaces, which is fantastic, but I still think that there are ongoing challenges for women to maintain a career whilst taking time off to have a family.

Women often return to part time roles after having time off to have a family, but do a full time job within the part time hours. Many bosses benefit more from having women work part-time. Yet there is little career advancement – you just keep working really hard.

8. What do you think organisations could do better to help support women at different stages of their professional life?

I think flexible work practices are fantastic. At CHARM Health, we support people wanting to work from home and wanting to work child-friendly hours. Technology today is making a big difference as well. The challenge, particularly in our industry, is that some positions require a lot of travel, so this is always going to be difficult for someone with caring responsibilities. The right role is critical for people who need flexibility.

9. What advice would you give to women starting their own business?

My first piece of advice would be to always hire people who are smarter and more intelligent than you. Never hire down. The second piece of advice I would give women is try to get help from wherever you can, rather than trying to solve the problems on your own.

Don’t shy away from doing what you want – go out, take the calculated risk, look at all your options and just go for it.

Could you tell us about your business and how you got started?

Renata (Singer) is a volunteer in a program in New York called the “Bottomless Closet” and on a visit to New York, we both started to think about starting a similar organisation in Melbourne and see how it resonated.

In March 2005, we pulled together a group of 50 women to see whether they thought the idea had some traction. We did a bit of research and discovered that there was a gap in the service deliveries to long-term unemployed women who were experiencing disadvantage.

Both Renata and I were committed to women’s issues and to find pathways to equality for women who have not had the same opportunities as ourselves. This was the first of its kind of service in Australia – a completely new way of working with women experiencing disadvantage.

In the beginning, the service was really only about providing the outfitting for women, but then we progressed to providing individual training and what we call, ‘conversations with purpose’. The clothing was a way to engage with the women and to then bring about sustainable employment for women experiencing disadvantage.

Our focus is not on making money. Our focus is on social capital.

What compromises have you had to make along the way?

It wasn’t so much compromises that we had to make along the way, it was tough decisions. Starting up a not-for-profit business with no capital is risky.

When we started the business, the social entrepreneurial sector was not as well understood as it is now and this added to the challenges.

One of the toughest decisions that we had to make along the way was when we decided to licence the original model of Fitted for Work. This turned out to be a disaster as we couldn’t maintain any quality control. We had to get rid of some of the licences in other locations and we moved to running a branch model. This was a critical shift in the whole running of the organisation. But it had to be done if we were to sustain the quality of our service under the model that we originally thought would work.

What is your definition of success and has it changed over time?

Our original definition of success was setting up a service that would assist some women in Melbourne. Our definition of success has definitely changed over time because we see the benefits of the service and so we want to reach more women and now our measure is 5,000 women a year.

The organisation’s success is in part due to our original vision and the energy and work that we put into making it happen.

What drives and inspires you?

The thing that drives and inspires us, particularly now, are the clients themselves. There is so much courage, perseverance and strength that we see in so many of the women that come into Fitted for Work. We see women from all ethnic backgrounds and of all ages, who have experienced terrible barriers in getting back to work.

The other thing that keeps us inspired is that the service resonates with people around the world. Once you tell the story, people are immediately engaged and find it easier to understand and they then inspire others.

What challenges do you think woman face in corporate life?

There seems to be no real commitment to include women who may want to have a life beyond a corporate life. There is a lot of talk about giving women time off etc., but then they don’t get promoted. I think there is a real cynicism about the reality of women in corporate life.

It is interesting to observe that many women feel that their life in the corporate world is totally lacking in terms of their ability to make a contribution, where they feel that they are making a difference and where they are valued. Many women we meet say, that if they could afford to, they would get out of the corporate life and work for a not-for-profit organisation.

For many women the reality is that if they feel unappreciated in their work and they don’t feel committed to their work.

Change has to be driven from the top. Attitudes have to be changed at the board level and at the CEO level. There has to be an absolute commitment to ensuring that women with skills, be they part time and be they on flexible work arrangements, have the opportunity to progress.

What should organisations be doing to attract, retain and promote women?

There are lessons that can be learned from the public sector. The not-for-profit sector operates effective and efficient services with very limited resources. There is not a cent wasted in a good not-for-profit organisation. If you look at the model of employment practices across the not-for-profit sector, they are value driven organisations, they actually value and appreciate the staff they have.

Do you have a view on targets and quotas?

They are a good way to get started. It gives an organisation something to aim at. There are so many women out there under-utilised – a huge pool of talent that is not being tapped. Targets will force companies to consider women for much higher positions. Once they consider women for these roles, they might notice just how capable the women are.

Do you think women sometimes lack confidence in their abilities?

There seems to be a lack of confidence that many women have that stops them from doing things. The other thing that is interesting is that women wanting to start their own business often have difficulty in accessing capital. Men seem to know how to go about it better. This lack of confidence that many women experience often stops them asking people to invest in them.

What advice would you give to women starting their own business?

Make sure that you have a vision and you’re very clear about your vision and hold true to it. Particularly in the early stages, you have to be opportunistic and grab what comes along. It is also vitally important to get good people around you who you absolutely trust and who understand what you are trying to achieve.

Could you tell us about your business and how you got started?

Renata (Singer) is a volunteer in a program in New York called the “Bottomless Closet” and on a visit to New York, we both started to think about starting a similar organisation in Melbourne and see how it resonated.

In March 2005, we pulled together a group of 50 women to see whether they thought the idea had some traction. We did a bit of research and discovered that there was a gap in the service deliveries to long-term unemployed women who were experiencing disadvantage.

Both Renata and I were committed to women’s issues and to find pathways to equality for women who have not had the same opportunities as ourselves. This was the first of its kind of service in Australia – a completely new way of working with women experiencing disadvantage.

In the beginning, the service was really only about providing the outfitting for women, but then we progressed to providing individual training and what we call, ‘conversations with purpose’. The clothing was a way to engage with the women and to then bring about sustainable employment for women experiencing disadvantage.

Our focus is not on making money. Our focus is on social capital.

What compromises have you had to make along the way?

It wasn’t so much compromises that we had to make along the way, it was tough decisions. Starting up a not-for-profit business with no capital is risky.

When we started the business, the social entrepreneurial sector was not as well understood as it is now and this added to the challenges.

One of the toughest decisions that we had to make along the way was when we decided to licence the original model of Fitted for Work. This turned out to be a disaster as we couldn’t maintain any quality control. We had to get rid of some of the licences in other locations and we moved to running a branch model. This was a critical shift in the whole running of the organisation. But it had to be done if we were to sustain the quality of our service under the model that we originally thought would work.

What is your definition of success and has it changed over time?

Our original definition of success was setting up a service that would assist some women in Melbourne. Our definition of success has definitely changed over time because we see the benefits of the service and so we want to reach more women and now our measure is 5,000 women a year.

The organisation’s success is in part due to our original vision and the energy and work that we put into making it happen.

What drives and inspires you?

The thing that drives and inspires us, particularly now, are the clients themselves. There is so much courage, perseverance and strength that we see in so many of the women that come into Fitted for Work. We see women from all ethnic backgrounds and of all ages, who have experienced terrible barriers in getting back to work.

The other thing that keeps us inspired is that the service resonates with people around the world. Once you tell the story, people are immediately engaged and find it easier to understand and they then inspire others.

What challenges do you think woman face in corporate life?

There seems to be no real commitment to include women who may want to have a life beyond a corporate life. There is a lot of talk about giving women time off etc., but then they don’t get promoted. I think there is a real cynicism about the reality of women in corporate life.

It is interesting to observe that many women feel that their life in the corporate world is totally lacking in terms of their ability to make a contribution, where they feel that they are making a difference and where they are valued. Many women we meet say, that if they could afford to, they would get out of the corporate life and work for a not-for-profit organisation.

For many women the reality is that if they feel unappreciated in their work and they don’t feel committed to their work.

Change has to be driven from the top. Attitudes have to be changed at the board level and at the CEO level. There has to be an absolute commitment to ensuring that women with skills, be they part time and be they on flexible work arrangements, have the opportunity to progress.

What should organisations be doing to attract, retain and promote women?

There are lessons that can be learned from the public sector. The not-for-profit sector operates effective and efficient services with very limited resources. There is not a cent wasted in a good not-for-profit organisation. If you look at the model of employment practices across the not-for-profit sector, they are value driven organisations, they actually value and appreciate the staff they have.

Do you have a view on targets and quotas?

They are a good way to get started. It gives an organisation something to aim at. There are so many women out there under-utilised – a huge pool of talent that is not being tapped. Targets will force companies to consider women for much higher positions. Once they consider women for these roles, they might notice just how capable the women are.

Do you think women sometimes lack confidence in their abilities?

There seems to be a lack of confidence that many women have that stops them from doing things. The other thing that is interesting is that women wanting to start their own business often have difficulty in accessing capital. Men seem to know how to go about it better. This lack of confidence that many women experience often stops them asking people to invest in them.

What advice would you give to women starting their own business?

Make sure that you have a vision and you’re very clear about your vision and hold true to it. Particularly in the early stages, you have to be opportunistic and grab what comes along. It is also vitally important to get good people around you who you absolutely trust and who understand what you are trying to achieve.

1. Could you tell us about your current role and how you got to where you are?

I am the Vice-Chancellor at Swinburne University and the President of the University. I report to the University Council, responsible for all aspects of the strategic direction and operation of the University. It is a complex business and we are focussed on delivering outcomes in higher education, vocational education, training, and research. We have seven campuses, six of them in Melbourne, and one in Malaysia. We educate around 60,000 students, with programs that range from certificates all the way through to PhDs. We are primarily focused in the science, technology, business, design and innovation space, with world-class expertise in social sciences and public policy. We are recognised as one of the top 400 Universities in the world. And just to give you some perspective on this statistic, there are approximately 15,000 universities in the world, so that puts us in the top 3%. I’ve been in this role for 18 months. I came to this through a 30 year career, primarily in health science education and research.

2. Is this the career path that you envisaged for yourself?

No it wasn’t. People have often asked me, how did you chart your career and your path? Looking back, it looks as if there was a plan. I think the phrase I use most often, is “I simply followed the onward journey”. I think I knew I’d find myself in some kind of leadership role, in whatever I did. It’s been part of my personality and part of the way I like to work. I like to be in roles that allow me to make things happen, and to create innovative solutions, but I didn’t have this specific role in mind.

My grandparents emigrated from Iceland to Canada, so they were first generation Canadians. My father couldn’t speak English when he went to school, but the message was always, ‘get an education and make a difference. The goal was always to undertake a career and work that was going to make a contribution. My mother was deeply committed to social causes and reinforced through her own actions that we should contribute to the well-being of others.

3. Have there been any compromises along the way that you’ve had to make?

I don’t think I’ve thought of my pathway as including a lot of compromise. I think that we are all living in choice. I have always had choices I’ve had to make about the pathways available to me. I think I’ve always chosen the path that would stretch me; one that would invite me to the next opportunity; one that was exciting, one that was challenging.

A defining choice I had to make was how to combine family with career. One of the reasons I was able to do it as effectively as I could, was because I lived in a country that had paid maternity-leave 25 years ago. Quality childcare was also accessible. I was therefore able to maintain my employment and incorporate my family life with my work aspirations.

Having said this, life was chock-full and I had to make choices about how I used my energies and my time. At one stage when the children were little, chances are, if you didn’t live or work with me you wouldn’t have seen me for a while. That was because I was so busy doing what I had to do – with family and work as my two top priorities.

My husband has been a full co-parent and we have taken a “team approach’ to our roles as parents and our professional roles. You learn to multi-task, let go of perfection, let go of gender-stereotypes in terms of who does what, and ask for help to make things happen. I look back at that period of early child-rearing while working as a very enjoyable time in my life. And although life was very full – I think blending both parts strengthened me in many ways.

My children are young adults now – both accomplished, kind and creative people who have enriched my life. I am indeed fortunate.

4. How would you define success?

I’ve never shaped my life based upon a need to be successful. Frankly, it is a word I haven’t used very much at all. For me, I have focused on having a life that is significant. I want to make sure I’m not sleep-walking through my life - I’ve only got one go at it. I know success is not about how much money you make or how thin you are. Success is when you feel the work you do and that the life you lead is congruent with your values; that you are able to make a contribution that is important. I always say - when you die, you are not going to be remembered for how many awards you received, or the length of your resume, you will be remembered for the way you treated people along the way.

5. What inspires and drives you day to day?

For me it is a privilege to have work that I find relevant and inspiring. Having the opportunity to participate in the number one export industry in this state - education, is also inspiring. And to know that education has the power to transform lives.

Let me give you an example. One of my university students was a midwife from Malawi pursuing her PhD. Malawi has one of the highest infant mortality rates in the world and one of the highest instances of HIV. This student was completing her PhD, while caring for her two children, and making financial and personal sacrifices in order to complete her studies. She knew when she went back to her country with her PhD, she would be in a senior position in the health department, able to influence policy, practices, and standards of health care that would contribute to decreased infant mortality rates. These are the ways in which education makes a difference, these are the stories that inspire me, as well as bringing out the best in me.

6. What role have mentors played in your life?

I‘ve been fortunate to have a number of mentors throughout my life. People whose I admired because of their values and the ways they act in the world; people who were generous with their wisdom and experience, career leaders in my field, people in higher education, industry, government - both men and women.

I also take inspiration from younger women. We often think of mentors as people from the older generation or those who have gone before us. However, I’m very inspired by a generation of young women who are in their teen years and twenties, who have a confidence that I think is wonderful, who have a sense of possibility. We need to live up to their expectations of what women can be.

7. What do you see as some of the major barriers for women in regard to career progression?

I think there still are some systemic, invisible barriers that prevent women from fulfilling different roles in society. I am in the minority as a female Vice-Chancellor. We see women go so far in the field of academia and then their careers plateau when they have to step out for a while to raise their families. Re-entering the workforce is a challenge, and many women have to start again in many respects. So I think affordable, accessible, quality child care is still a barrier. I think meaningful paid maternity leave is still a barrier for many women. I think flexible working conditions for men and women are a barrier. I also think there are still some stereotypical ways that language is used. We talk about girls and men. We talk about ladies, instead of women; Chairman instead of the “Chair” of the board. Language is subtle, but it is also quite revealing and it reinforces stereotypes that create invisible barriers. We need to continue to make progress in those ways.

8. What do you think Australian organisations need to do better to attract, retain and promote women?

I think we need to frame the issue in terms of productivity. If 50% of our workforce is not able to contribute all of their talents optimally, then the whole nation suffers. So, as organisations we have to be alert to the talents we have and the working environments and policies we create to ensure that we have workplaces that allow people to contribute fully. I’m referring to flexibility in the workplace environment, attention to the language we use, being alert to unconscious bias that may make it difficult for women to succeed.

9. What is your view on the introduction of targets and quotas?

I am an advocate of both. Without clear goals it is too easy to be passive about change. When you have numbers that you are expected to deliver on, it prompts action. So to me it just becomes a re-enforcing strategy to re-dress the systematic bias that is out there.