Podcast transcript: EY Change Happens Podcast – Naomi Simson

Intro: Change happens – how we respond to change can make or break us and our careers. Join us for an intimate insight into how senior business leaders face change. The good, the bad and everything in between because whether we like it or not, change happens.

Jenelle: This podcast series – Change Happens – is a conversation with senior business leaders on leading through change and the lessons learned along the way. When we set out to create a podcast about how we cope and deal and work through change we didn’t expect it to be amid the biggest worldwide change in modern history – COVID 19. In this new world of self isolation, many businesses, particularly, in experience and travel space have had their businesses shut down overnight with the COVID 19 crisis. Others have been able to pivot into new ways of working. So with that context in mind, today I’ve asked founder of Red Balloon and co founder of Big Red Group and Shark in the Shark Tank, TV series, Naomi Simpson, to join me to share her insights into leading courageously during these unique and challenging times. Naomi pioneered the concept of experiential gifting in Australia almost two decades ago. She’s an avid blogger, strong advocate of entrepreneurship, passionate about gifting experiences and during her Red Balloon days, preferred the title of Chief Experience Officer to CEO. Naomi firmly believes that passion, persistence, positivity and purpose foster business success. I’m looking forward to exploring how Naomi and Big Red Group are managing this current COVID 19 crisis and we will absolutely get to that. But first, Naomi, welcome. 

Naomi: Thank you, thank you for having me Jenelle.

Jenelle: Pleasure. Who are you and what do you do? 

Naomi: Who am I? I’m a – you know I guess if I look at my career, I’m a person who has been bringing people together. And whether that’s the fact that as part of Red Balloon we created a marketplace for literally thousands of small businesses and we connected them into corporate customers and brought them customers or even whether it’s me as a speaker or an author, my job has always been about just bringing people together and shared experience, whatever that experience is. 

Jenelle: And how are you at this moment in time? 

Naomi: I’m frazzled, confused, worried, anxious, but also tremendously proud of our team and our community and how we are coming together as one. And it’s hard for a person who has always brought people together to know that actually we cannot do this on our own – we have to come together. We have to be a community and we’re all in this together and there’s no out, you know. We have to just face forward. 

Jenelle: Yeah, it’s an incredibly challenging time for anyone who’s in the experience and travel industries. Your business is quite unique – you support over 1,800 individual businesses. How have you been dealing with it personally and with your own teams and also with those broader partners of Red Balloon? 

Naomi: Yeah, so if you think about tourism and the big players in tourism, we sit at the small business end with activity suppliers who international travellers love to visit and so forth but so do locals. So whether it’s a chocolate walking tour or a didgeridoo lesson. You know the point is that it’s very accessible and that’s what we do is put it all together in a marketplace and make sure it’s quality assured and that it’s accessible. So look I would argue that when this first happened and we watched it on the 11th of March at about midday, there must have been an announcement or something because consumers’ sentiment shifted immediately and we watched it on our website. And we literally just said – where’s everybody gone? Like what’s happened. 

Jenelle: Naomi, so what was it on the 11th of March specifically? 

Naomi: Well, didn’t really understand it till afterwards. I think that was the moment that the World Health Organisation announced a pandemic and instantly we saw a reaction in terms of traffic to our websites. And we’ve watched it ever since. So that first week was just a state of confusion, denial, it’ll be okay, how can this be happening and really not understanding. And then watching what was going on, particularly with the airlines, was very challenging. And then the next week we kind of said, well who are we in this? Are we going to be passengers or are we going to be participants? And we as a leadership team then set about creating a strategy of our defence position as well as our offence position. Now very hard to be marketing and promoting experiences when people can’t leave home. 

Jenelle: That’s right. 

Naomi: Yeah, it’s kind of impossible. But 

Jenelle: Well especially when you use the word accessibility. If accessible is key to your business and suddenly access has been the one thing that’s been truly cut off, that really is 

Naomi: You know I’m a believer in following what is right for our community and so whilst I might be upset and angry and disappointed that 20 years of my life seemed to disappear before my eyes, it’s actually not the case. In the sense that we know in GFC, for instance, that people did still go on activities and experiences and we know we will get to the other side of this and people will really be looking forward to doing things with family, friends and colleagues. So this is a matter of what can we work on in the longer term, strategically, that our balance sheet allows for whilst also looking at short term consumer and customer sentiment with our corporate clients. So this is a balancing act between the right now and the build for the future, so we’re ultimately going to be stronger. 

Jenelle: It’s really clear that you’ve leaned right into the environment that we’re in. You know after that sort of first few days or week of – oh my god what’s happening – as you’ve said yourself you’ve kind of really sort of figured out well how do we – do we become passengers, do we become participants? And you’ve really quickly revised your plan, which I can only imagine was already being revised after the bushfires. So you’ve had to revise again and come up with a new communication package, a new set of experiences. How have you been able to so quickly decide to become, you know, an active player in that and what about others who might not have been able to move so quickly - still taking time to adjust. How do you work in with that environment? 

Naomi: Well, I guess the first thing is that we as a marketplace were going through a tech transformation anyway. And I have seen that meme going around – who’s driving tech transformation, CEO, CTO or COVID 19? COVID 19 really got us to get – you know get on with it. And so one of the things is that we are physically all working from home like everybody else is and we were able to do that. But our experience suppliers couldn’t do that. They can’t accept customers. So one of the things we did was, first of all, knowing that we are supporting businesses everywhere in Australia was, how can we support them, pivot to having a new revenue stream. And we’ve been working really hard to invent and create the Experiences at Home range. And literally every day we’re publishing about 10 new experiences in that category. The page will be merchandise __ - so that we have virtual experiences and things that you just can’t get anywhere else. Like learning to do magic, or hula hoop lessons or other things. And we have some really fun ones coming down the line. But they’re virtual and you literally could be anywhere. But we did go back first of all to our supply base who’ve been working with – you know some of these people I’ve been working with for 20 years, helping them grow their business. Balloon Aloft up in the Hunter Valley – when we started together they had 1 balloon and had 700 passengers. Last year, together, there was – we had 19 balloons and 23,000 passengers which has a material impact on community. But right now what experience could Balloon Aloft deliver? And that’s been our challenge – is how can we create virtual experiences but also maybe product based experiences that get delivered, such as high tea at home for mum on Mother’s Day and could we get that throughout Australia where you deliver all of those things. 

So there’s the, at home delivery - we are going to deliver experience to your home, which might be a gin tasting, an olive oil tasting or something like that. We’re pizza making and that might come with a video or something special to make, You know, so it’s not – it has to be more than a delivery service. It has to be something truly experiential – it has to meet with our brand requirements but also virtual experiences that we can get exclusively. So that was the first thing.

Jenelle: And how do you feel that customers and employee behaviours and expectations are changing? What would you say are the – some of the characteristics that you’ve seen change? 

Naomi: How are we changing as a leadership team. We have chosen to be incredibly transparent with our team. Like literally showing them the bridge. Like what is going to be required in terms of savings. What is going to be required in terms of revenue. What’s that pivot point, how is that going to look. And every week we have a complete company town hall. David our group CEO is – are sending messages out every single day. We have a whole rhythm. But it took us some real time to get there. We are in the trenches with them. And I’ve taken an operational role which I haven’t had for a very long time and I’m heading up the – a seven person team in terms of our work that we do with our corporate clients. And so it’s all hands on. And I think that our team have really appreciated that and also that whilst everybody else in the tourism industry – or many were forced to do stand downs, we’re really, really resisting it. So that we can push through and build for the future, beyond, because we know, we know that we will be very busy on the other side and when people go out. So transparency, authenticity. Also that sense of relatedness. Like we’re as scared as everybody else. We are fearful, we are worried, but we also are coaching people around us to only – only work on the things you can control. Don’t worry about the things you can’t control.

Jenelle: I was going to ask you – what do you think the defining characteristics of a courageous leader are? You’ve talked about transparency, authenticity, relatedness. Are there other things as well that you would see as being really critical characteristics for a courageous leader? 

Naomi: There’s times for a wartime CEO. And right now our people I think are having comfort in the fact that we have created a six week plan. It’s – you know it’s for us our next key period is around Mother’s Day and so – and that’s in minute detail and actually really gives people confidence that they know their role in that. Where they belong and how to create connections. So it’s probably a far tighter plan than as a leadership team we would ever usually just define. Usually we, you know, it goes off to the teams – this is what we’re expecting as a leadership group and then it kind of comes back. But we’ve been a little more prescriptive and actually what that has done for the teams – they know what success looks like and they know their role in it. And so I think there is a different style right now than we would usually have in terms of the workplace and people are really leading into it. 

Cause they go – right, my job is to launch this by the 17th of April. That’s like one thing that I have to get done and I did my piece in the overall puzzle. So whilst it might seem complex, everybody knows what their role is. And that has – and it’s – I promise you – A. wasn’t easy and B. it’s taken this long to get there and I think this is the first week. So we’ve been in this now for 3 weeks, this is the first week that I think the whole business has got a real cascade. The other thing is, how do you give transparency when people can’t see each other, apart from visually. And the other thing that we’ve done is, created dashboard with intention data. 

Jenelle: What’s dashboard with intention? 

Naomi: Yeah. So intention data is, what are we looking at. So one of them would be traffic to our websites. One would be increased phone calls, one would be increased leads coming into our sales force systems and so forth. And also what people are searching on. So we begin to look at the intention data and what that will help us do is understand and map the change in consumer sentiment, so that we don’t go out too early - if consumer sentiment really isn’t about what we’re talking about right now. So we’re really looking at what that intention piece is. Job Keepers was critically important to consumer sentiment. And I know every retailer has said the same thing. 

Jenelle: I love those points and you know it really resonates Naomi when you’re talking about the wartime leader and maybe sort of the six week rolling plan, anchoring milestone to milestone, and Mother’s Day is your next foreseeable milestone. I think the beauty of that and some of these actions that we are doing now and I can totally relate to it for us at EY as well, is in a time of complete uncertainty creating some amount of certainty – with this fit we know – and then giving people clarity on their role in it – allows them to feel some sense of control, where everything else may well feel out of control. So I certainly feel like that’s something that in ordinary circumstances, you know, there might be a bit of rebellion against that but for right now it’s a welcome relief when you can provide that kind of clarity and meaning for people and say – yup I can do that, I can do something with that. 

Naomi: I completely agree. And one other tool that we’re using is we’re surveying people weekly because we are really worried about our people being at home for whatever – whether they can’t get work done because – you know – they’ve got kids who are crawling all over them or people who might be feeling isolated. So you know we rolled out a new EAP service and we’ve done a – and obviously our recognition platform is really important too cause we’re asking people for miracles and we have to notice that contribution and make sure everybody in the business can see that and that is where the Ready.com platform has been so incredibly powerful for us. Cause we can’t – we just can’t see it in the same sort of way so we have to be very intentional about how we’re connecting in. 

Jenelle: You know you’ve talked about – use the word shared experience you know, a bit, and that an experience is the cornerstone of your business, and the need for people to connect more through shared experience. Now this world that we find ourselves right now is nothing like any standard shared experience we might know. It’s certainly not one where we can come together in any kind of physical way. What are some of the positives that you’re experiencing or seeing as we share this unprecedented moment in history? 

Naomi: I think what is exciting for people is they see possibility in new ways of living. I mean, especially, after the summer from hell. Such a frustration about who we were as a people, our climate, our politics, our whatever. But there was this kind of angst and I don’t know aggression and so much of social media – it kind of dictates that ethos. And what we’ve seen is kindness out of this and we’ve seen kindness in a way that we haven’t probably experience before. And you know I saw something, a little piece where the bush – the firefighter was handing the baton to the health worker – your turn now. I think this will bring us together, no matter what our heritage, our background, where we come from, we’re in this together and we are Australians. If we are in this land and on this land, we are the custodians of this land in the sense of, you know, we are all here now and it is our job to look after it. So I’m very hopeful that out of this people will say – actually I don’t need to consume what I was consuming before. I don’t need to transport myself the way I used to transport myself. These are the things that are now important to me, my family, my friends, my values, and so perhaps this is a trigger that will change who we are and how we support each other as communities. So good will come of this, it always does. When we overcome and we work together to achieve something, that sense of accomplishment and pride will come through. Yeah, I’m incredibly proud of the fact that even though the fact that our economy is – who knows what it’s going to be but we have protected our people. Not everybody, but gosh we are far better off than so many other countries around the world. So you know we can be grateful for that.

Jenelle: Absolutely. So you know you talked about your blogs and like I said you’re an active – very active blogger and you recently posted on one of your blogs the three tips on mental health for business owners and leaders as we navigate this time of Corona Virus. The three things you said were: there’s no point blaming anyone, it is unhealthy, we are in it and together we will get out of it; number two was look at the components of emotional resilience; and three, try to have a laugh, humour helps, life will go on. Can you take us a bit more through your thinking around those three points?

Naomi: Yes, look my personal motto has always been - if it’s meant to be it’s up to me. And it’s actually served me really well because you know if we sit in a world of blame or we shouldn’t have, it couldn’t have or they’re not doing a good enough job, whatever, you can’t control that and you cannot ever control somebody else’s behaviour, their thoughts, their actions, their words. It just is. But what you can control is yourself. And you can control the elements of your own life. So I’ve found that, as a younger person, I was always bothered about other people weren’t working as hard as me. But then when I realised it was my choice to work this hard, it was my choice, and then I got a certain freedom about it. And so you know I will look to what can I control and what can’t I control. And when I feel a sense of upset for myself it’s usually that I am worried about what other people are doing, not what I’m doing. So that to me just gives us a framework of freedom of being able to say – well I can’t influence anything that’s on that news and I can’t unsee it either, so I’m going to choose to turn it off and work on things I can control, which might be connecting to family and friends or just going a different way. So that’s why I say that. Don’t blame anybody, don’t blame what you see on the TV, turn it off, do something else. 

Naomi: The second one is just that framework around emotional resilience and the first element of that is just about safety. To be emotionally resilient, you know, you actually need to be safe and what does safety mean – it might be physical, emotional or financial, and obviously that’s taken a real battering now. So if we think about as a framework, what would it take for you to feel safe, then that’s a really important element. And get some help around that too. Cause actually some things you can’t fix yourself, so who else could help you? The second thing is about, do I belong and what do I belong to? And this is a really hard one when so many workers have been stood down, how do they stay connected and belonging to something bigger than themselves? And it’s a real question that I have for employers of how do they make their people feel that they are belonging and are important and when they’re not definitely seeing them every day and maybe not even communicating. So that belonging place is really important to us and also that the work that we do, do is valuable and important. So you know with our team, understanding that if you do this job that means these suppliers in Far North Queensland or Western Australia are going to get customers and that’s important to our community. So connecting the dots for people that their work matters. A lot of business owners under incredible pressure, whether it be financial pressure – and some businesses are obviously in growth but those who are in massive growth are also under pressure. So I’m just asking people to be kind to each other. We’re all just humans and we’re all doing the best we can. And the last one is – it is okay to have a laugh. I think now that we’ve been 

Jenelle: There’s a lot of memes to help us along with that. 

Naomi: I know and they’re absolutely – and I’m - you know I’m really good at circulating them because we’re in this for a long time. You know it might be 3 months, we may have been home for 3 weeks, you know Australians have always had a great sense of humour. So it just is. We can’t fix it but we can play our part so we may as well laugh along the way. 

Jenelle: It helps bring levity to a very, very tough situation, for sure. 

Naomi: It really does. And it’s okay to have fun in business too. You know it really is, because if it’s all too serious then we’re not nurturing the people around us emotionally either. 

Jenelle: I just want to, you know, pick up on a point - you were talking about how you have really – I mean I know you keep saying it’s been – you were slow to move but actually you have moved fast in reframing your products when you think about experiences at home. You’ve been fast to re imagine your business model. Done that a couple of times over now. So you’ve a real history of really successful, disruptive thinking in business and we’re in a time where the world is really craving order and safety and calm and control as we’ve just talked about. But a lot of the solutions that we really need now when it comes to health or social welfare or the economy, does need that out of the box, quite disruptive thinking to get the kind of breakthroughs that we need. I’m wondering whether you’ve got any thoughts around how we strike the right balance between those two things? 

Naomi: Yeah, it is a balance and we are very much coaching ourselves that is this an investment we’re making just to try and bridge a gap or is this actually a better way to do this long term. Any step – any investment that you’re making – is it for the longer term and does it – for us particularly does it align to our brand. But one thing that I think our team has just really embraced is minimal viable product. And so, you know, we have kind of got to a point in our business where everything had to be perfect, and right now we’re kind of going, well why don’t we ship it and see what our customers tell us and then we can you know finish it off around the edges. You know so we’re putting a lot of experiences on our website under the Home Range – At Home Range – and some of them may or may not sell and well if they don’t sell we’ll just unpublish them but if we don’t try them. Whereas often we used to be like – ahhh, no that doesn’t belong, we won’t do that. So I think there is very much a yes let’s give it a crack attitude.

Jenelle: Yeah, I really – I mean I’m quite sure like everyone else we recognise that this whole thing is going to create a new – some kind of new normal for us. What do you think is likely or possible would change in the world permanently once we get through this? You know business, government, community, what are some of those more permanent changes that you think? There’s a new world that we’ve seen that we will keep with us moving forward. 

Naomi: Well, ironically, I was hosting a trip to Silicone Valley for business leaders and it was entitled “The Future of Work” and we had to push it out until October because obviously we couldn’t go. Oops the future of work happened. Like on the 11th of March – it just happened. And so I think that the way we work – what’s important to us - will really change and I think people will begin to make choices about their life rather than being necessarily – I’ve always done it that way. So I think that what we choose is important in our lives, we’ll adjust and change. So I don’t think everything will go back to the same but I think we’ll be a better place for it. 

Jenelle: And if you think about your career, what are some of the changes that you’ve initiated and influenced that you’re most proud of? 

Naomi: I guess I’m known as Mrs Small Business. And I don’t mind. In fact I think it’s really great to have an advocate on behalf of small business because – but if you think about what a small business is made up of, it’s, you know, it’s 97% of all registered businesses are small and so it’s everything from the local shop to franchises and so forth. So I think it’s just important – and it’s not – so what I’m saying is it’s not a homogenous group and there’s businesses that are entrepreneurial, there’s start ups, there’s growth businesses, there’s franchises. Not a homogenous voice but I think I’m very good at living in the world of what it is like of the key elements to do with small businesses which always will come back to customer, cash flow and being paid. So I get that and I get it really loud and clear. The other thing is that there is this kind of romantic notion about being an entrepreneur and this life I promise you, isn’t for everybody. That is, the unknown that you navigate and clearly we’re in a completely unknown now. For that reason I’ve been asked to be on certain boards. You know University Melbourne, UTS, I support there, because so many of their undergraduates do want to have their own businesses. I’m happy to be that role model for people but also to speak it how it is because it’s not – not everybody’s on Facebook or Google – in fact it’s highly unlikely and you know so few uni courses - let’s be really real about what this journey should be like. 

Jenelle: And look I think you know it’s so fair for you to use the word role model. You’re definitely looked up to by so many businesses, large and small, as a role model and you’ve established a really strong leadership skill set. Can you tell me about the skills that you know you’ve been able to transfer into the various settings that you’ve been in and you know universities and philanthropic space in television, in your own business, what have you taken across and what are some of the skills that maybe you’ve had to change or adapt to suit the conditions and the roles that you’re in – you’ve been in? 

Naomi: One of the things that I learned is just one man’s opinion. And what I mean by that is it’s okay for everybody to have an opinion, but it doesn’t mean it’s The Truth, it’s their truth. 

Jenelle: Oh that’s a Shark Tank point – I’ve heard you say that. 

Naomi: I know and so therefore I’m always looking for proof points. I’m looking for how do we validate this proof point and I do that – it’s like having a healthy scepticism because as a – I’m always a sales woman, I always will be. I’m just always positive and can see the benefits so therefore it’s really important for me to have a healthy scepticism or to challenge. Cause I think that’s why they’ve put me in the room, is to just challenge the thinking. The other thing is I always sit in the customer’s shoes. Like 100% sit in the customer’s shoes and even if it’s something I’ve written, like a blog post, I go who is going to read this and why would they give up their five or ten minutes to read it? What value am I delivering them and how do I want them left?
And I have been writing a bit in the last week or two about who do you trust. When, you know, the internet is full of everybody who’s got an opinion but on what basis, on what authority are they saying that. And it’s – I’m fascinated by people who say – oh and now you can pivot. I’m like it’s really easy to say that, ain’t so easy to do it. So let’s look to people who’ve either done it or the models and the research that sits behind such a statement and don’t pivot for the sake of it because you can put yourself in a spin and not actually pivot.

Jenelle: So I’m going to ask you now to look into your crystal ball. So if you’d just reach under your desk and grab that out for me. What do you think in 5 years’ time, you know, we’re going through the biggest crisis of our lives here. Lots of change going on, in 5 years’ time what are your predictions for society and business? 

Naomi: I’m looking to the good life. And I think that we will be far clearer as a society of what the good life is. We’ve had a consultant called Paul Connell help us with this work because we were finding that we just weren’t getting to it and we wanted to really look at what is our path to being – serving an experience every second but sustainably. And so we needed somebody from the outside to come in and just say – well what do you really mean like that. And so I think five years from now is we will as a community understand what the good life is and how that includes people and that is one thing that just keeps me going and why I’m so A) committed to experiences; but B) how we are moving as a society towards that, and what that means. Cause I am passionate about the wellbeing of small businesses. I’m passionate about mental health and the reason is, is because we will get this notion of who are we, what do we stand for, and we believe in the good life. But the good life has to be inclusive and sustainable for many, many generations and our species. 

Jenelle: I absolutely love that. 

Voiceover The last three, three fast questions on change to finish the podcast.

Jenelle: So finally Naomi, three fast questions, more of a light-hearted nature. So quick three. What’s a misconception that most people have about you?

Naomi: That my favourite colour’s red. 

Jenelle: I think you foster that one. 

Naomi: No, it’s yellow. 

Jenelle: Ok. What’s one guilty pleasure and I do need this to be PG?

Naomi: Whiskey – single malt whiskey collection.

Jenelle: Ok and I know you are absolutely exceptional at so many things, but what’s one thing that you’re hopeless at?

Naomi: Oh hopeless – I thought you were going to ask me about my painting. Cause I really covet that I will give all of this up and be an artist one day.

Jenelle: Oh so you’re good at that too, that’s annoying. No, I need something that’s hopeless – you’re hopeless at. 

Naomi: What am I hopeless – oh look given that I’m a writer, I’m a really bad speller. 

Jenelle: Thank god for spell check hey. 

Naomi: And because I think so quickly I just – it’s like I can’t keep up with it. So I’m ashamed sometimes at the emails that I’ve written. Cause when I’ve read them back I’m going – actually doesn’t make any sense. Cause my words tumble over each other and I’m quite ashamed of that actually. Yeah. 

Jenelle: Well you seem to do alright. So Naomi massive thank you from our show – should I call you Mrs Small Business. Massive thank you. Some key takeaways from me is you know listening to you, I think you have real clarity on recognising what you can and can’t control and focusing your efforts in the areas where you can control. I love the recognition that different times call for different leaders and wartime leadership is such as we find ourselves in now requires maybe some of those much more granular planning, giving people a sense of clarity and control over the small milestones ahead and there’s no question I’ve come away feeling unbelievably optimistic and as you know as you point out, you see the possibility in everywhere. And I too have a vision for the good life that you speak about. I too think that this is around the balancing act of the short and long term and I have a desire to be a participant and not a passenger in this. So massive thank you, it’s been a real pleasure. 

Naomi: No my pleasure, thanks for having me, Jenelle.

Voiceover The change Happens Podcast from EY a conversation on leading through change. Discover more where you get your podcasts.
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