Podcast transcript: Is gender equality the secret to success in our Transformative Age?

Juliette Foster

Hello and welcome to The Better Question, EY’s series of podcasts that answer the questions that will help you lead your business through this Transformative Age. I am your host, Juliette Foster, and today we are looking at gender equality.

Today, skills shortages and building teams that can adapt and innovate are the major challenges that any CEO is grappling with to remain competitive and stay ahead of the game.  So, our better question today is: What if gender equality is the secret to success in our Transformative Age?

We’ll speak to two CEOs to understand their views. Julie Teigland, EY’s Regional Managing Partner for Germany, Switzerland and Austria, who’s also leading EY’s Women. Fast Forward program globally.

And Silvina Moschini, CEO and founder of SheWorks. SheWorks is a unique technology start-up which that has the ambitious goal of breaking down the barriers that separate the talent from the opportunities, enabling women from all around the world to find education and job opportunities that give them flexibility and fit into their lives.

Julie, if I can start with you, as a company leader, why do you believe that gender equality in the workplace is so important?

Julie Teigland

Every single study out there, and I could give you loads of statistics, shows that you need diverse people, at hand, to solve the most complex problems. Thinking that you're going to solve a problem and not having the element of gender being represented is simply not true. And diversity goes even beyond gender, it's bringing people from all different backgrounds, different genders, different sexual orientations, different competencies, different ethnicities together to solve those problems and I can show that diverse teams really perform better in all respects — higher revenue, higher margins, higher income. 

Juliette Foster

Okay. So, history tells us that gender equality is not something that can be achieved just through company’s diversity and inclusiveness policies. Now, I know that you and EY are involved in various discussions to remove public policy barriers to women’s economic empowerment. So, just tell me, what steps do you think are needed to move that policy into action? 

Julie Teigland

We can't just talk about it, we need to have some real concrete actions. First, I think the W20 communique that came out does provide guidelines for how actions can be taken. Each government needs to effectively take actions on that level. But every business, as part of society today, has their own part to play — their own part in deciding each and every day what is the percentage of women I hire, I promote and how do I pay them? And by simply agreeing that we, as professional organizations, functioning in our local economies, will do the right things around how I hire, how I promote, how I pay and how I educate will make a huge difference, both in our economies and in our societies. Every one of us has a part to play and that's embedded through actions and commitments.

Juliette Foster

Now, this year the W20 sees digital as the key, if you like, to advancing gender equality. Do you think that digital will it make it easier or, indeed, harder to meet that challenge?

Julie Teigland

 I'm hopeful that with our fourth industrial revolution and the things that are changing with digital, that it's actually equal opportunity to step up and leapfrog, and have more women enter the labor force. They can work more flexibly, work from home, and concepts like gig now and contracting, freelancing, and being your own boss are even more rampant than ever before. And that's really going to make this change and propel us to the future.  

So, while I can definitely see some of the barriers, I also can see the rich opportunity that's out there — if we can grab it in the right way. So digital, I think, will be a real driver, but only if we raise awareness to ensure that digital means we don't leave anyone behind; and the women actually have to also benefit from this revolution.

Juliette Foster

What do you think the number one priority should be in the boardroom, at government level and, in fact, in our role as parents when it comes to gender equality?

Julie Teigland

Recognizing that, with the ever involvement of digital, that we need to ensure that women — and frankly girls — receive a certain amount of education in the engineering and mathematic fields — so those fields around Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics (STEM). And that being utterly important to ensure with that fourth industrial revolution that women keep pace.

Juliette Foster

How do you think technology will accelerate gender equality?

Julie Teigland

Think of what the economy in Silicon Valley would look like without technology. Well, frankly, it wouldn't be existent. Secondly, offering a potential to flexiblize the workforce, and we've talked about that around platforms for technology, more education for women around us. And, thirdly, being a catalyst for change. Digitalization, with all of the complications that it brings, such as new technology,  has really forced many of our businesses to reassess themselves — reassess their strategy, how they deal with talent, what's their operating model and that gives us an opportunity to also look at the benefits of diversity.

For example, with SheWorks, EY just announced a digital platform that we're going to roll out for 100,000 new jobs for women allowing them, through a platform-based technology, to log in and find jobs, applications, connect to employers and work on a flexible basis.

Juliette Foster

But if businesses embrace these recommendations to try and redress the imbalances, it still leaves you with the issue of unconscious bias, and we know that plays a big role in preventing gender equality. So, how do you think companies should go about addressing that?

Julie Teigland

The only way, I think, you can get it is from the top of the tree — ensuring that they understand that it's not about being nice, it's not even about doing the right thing, it's about doing the financially solid thing. In other words, what they're getting paid for is to do their job and their job, at the end of the day, whether we like it or not, is generally, unless you're running a charity, to make money. If the results show that by promoting diversity, you can have better results, I have a hard time accepting why you wouldn't, you would have to show me the barriers that would say why you would not do that.

If you can understand that train of thought and realize that unconscious bias is a huge barrier in business today — because we naturally rotate to what's easier, what's like ourselves, it makes us feel good. We've got to find a way to jump over that and say, I'm going to do the little bit extra to get the best results. And yes, that's sometimes being uncomfortable, it's sometimes talking to somebody that has different opinions and convincing them, or letting myself be convinced. But if we don't do that, as a society, as people together, we're always going to be muddling through and not getting the best results.

Juliette Foster

Julie, there’s one last thought that I’d like to put to you, and I want you to be fair. Is gender equality something that we're going to see in our lifetime? I don't want to give my age away, I absolutely refuse to do that, but am I going to see this happen by the time I'm 80?

Julie Teigland

I actually think we're seeing massive change and we've got to give ourselves credit for what we've already accomplished.

It's not so long ago that we had the 1950s. And if you think about the 1950s for a second, many of us would think of a beautiful woman with a very small waist, a very large skirt, very high heels and pictures of her doing something in the kitchen or being glamorous next to her husband. And, yes, these are television clichés. But, let's be honest, that's not that long ago. If we think about it, today is 2018, you're talking in a mere span of 68 years, we've effectively destroyed — and I mean that positively — that image of that is the perfect woman. That doesn't exist anymore. And I have to say, I think that's a real accomplishment. I don't need to tell my daughter, “Well, you need to wear two to three inch heels,”  it's totally changed — she can do more of what she wants to do and I think that's fantastic.

So, I do hope 50 years down, 80 years or before I call it quits, that we're going to see even more change, even more women doing very different things.

Juliette Foster

That’s a great opportunity to bring in Silvina Moschini, whose company SheWorks aims to use technology to help companies tap into women who are currently excluded from the workforce or underutilized.  I caught up with her over Skype, and began by asking her what she’s aiming to achieve with her platform.

Silvina Moschini

SheWorks is a platform that has a very ambitious goal, which is to break the barriers that separate the talent from the opportunities — to enable women from around the world to fulfil their potential, find education and job opportunities that fit into their lives. And when we say job opportunities that fit into their lives, we mean job opportunities that are of high hierarchy with top leading companies from around the world and that can be done remotely, and, in some cases, on-demand basis projects, full-time remote, part-time remote, on-demand and anything that, we believe, can help companies to expand their capabilities and tap into the best person for the job if we believe the best person for the job is a woman. And it can be located anywhere in the world.

Juliette Foster

Why is now the right opportunity to finally make gender equality happen?

Silvina Moschini

We are living a perfect storm of innovation — cloud technology, machine learning, data science, machine algorithms and massive shifts toward the on-demand economy. And I firmly believe that this perfect storm of innovation is the catalyst for driving and accelerating this change that will empower women from anywhere in the world to have jobs that fit into their lives. So, it's an absolute “Yes” and I think it's the best time of our living history for women to take advantage of technology and all the opportunities that technology has to offer.

Juliette Foster

So, how is your platform a catalyst for change?

Silvina Moschini

It's a catalyst because it will bring together the talent on one hand that, through technology, can have a good representation. And with technology, this can actually help them massively and, at this scale, get together. So, companies can just simply go using the matching algorithms and select a type of person, the type of woman that they need for the job. And all of these are conversions of transformation in the digital space can help in finding the best person, no matter where the person is located. And when we are talking about this, we are referring to women who, perhaps, are living because of their own choice in a beautiful farm in Tuscany in Italy or in Nepal or in the Patagonia in Argentina or are mums who have left the workforce because they couldn't find flexibility and now, have the chance to re-engage.

So, we address the issue of how to find them through cloud technology and also how to make remote workforce something [that is] transparent and efficient; addressing the issues related to a remote workforce management which are trust, engagement and accountability. And technology, is a catalyst to make this happen because it changed the rules of engagement. Before, it was impossible to find them and it was impossible to work with them because technology didn’t enable communications, collaboration and rating. So, it's an absolute game changer.

You know when employers say, "Oh, there is a pipeline issue." Yes, of course, if you are looking around the four blocks that surround your headquarters, there will be a pipeline issue. Because necessarily not all the talented women available will live in a walking distance of the offices. But this, absolutely, eliminates that excuse because it will take them just a few minutes to tap into the whirlpool of talented women, who will now be searchable, findable and hireable, and it will be possible for them to engage and have no excuses. So now, we cannot take “No” as an answer.

Juliette Foster

So, in your opinion, is it the private or public sector that’s better placed to speed up women’s economic involvement?          

Silvina Moschini

I think it's a combination between public and private sector. Because for public sector, it's super important to drive the change on this reality aside from the change in narrative. And also for the private sector, they need to be aware that if they do not change, the competitor will not be the traditional competitor. It will be a smaller company, that is now perhaps in a garage, that will take over the market and we saw it across the board with companies in different fields like Netflix and Blockbuster.

Juliette Foster

Now, in 2017 the European Commission said it was going to be implementing the use of quotas for women on company boards, because they wanted to address the slow progress toward gender equality in the senior ranks of business. Are you in favor of using quotas?

Silvina Moschini

I think it's one partial solution because it needs to be taken into the context. Some people say, “Oh, if we have a quota then we won't have the best person for the job,” and this is not necessarily true. Because you could be a talented woman and have the right skills to get the job done. But today, the reality is that if we don't force it and work together with different tools — from education to a sponsorship to actually identifying the potential candidates, the next generation of leaders and prepare them to succeed — we will not make it happen. So, having a target quota will force this by making it more mandatory to fulfil, and perhaps, it won't be perfect initially but it will make it normal.

Juliette Foster

When do we reach that point of normality, and how are we going to see the benefits translated in the business community? And in your opinion, what difference will that make? How will businesses benefit?

Silvina Moschini

Well, I think there will be a much happier world. Like, for example, I talk to legislators about the importance of changing regulation to make work more flexible and global. I talk about empowering women in the gig economy and making work more flexible when they are not in the gig economy, with traditional work arrangements, because it applies to everyone. It means if there is equality, there would be US$13 trillion increase in gross domestic product (GDP).

One case that comes to mind, we work with the Minister of Labour of Saudi Arabia who selected our technology to build Teleworks Saudi, which is one of the programs for women in the Kingdom. It enables them to find remote work; because in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, women can only work in gender-unique environments — women-only businesses. But they can telework. So, this was translating a massive increase in the country’s GDP. It will also translate in having women become totally and absolutely empowered because the first step to empowerment is having financial independence. If you don't have money, your own money, you cannot make your living, you cannot take absolutely any possible decision. It will help companies to increase their return on investment (ROI) in profits and it will feel good for everyone. So for me, it's a no brainer and it's mind boggling that it doesn't happen faster. We still have to explain why we should be part of this conversation, because the benefits are so obvious and across the board — from policy makers to women to employers to pretty much anyone — it will happen, I have no doubt.

Women mean business and no matter how traditional you are, if you are conscious about the importance of economics, women are probably the secret weapon to drive the success of the country.

Juliette Foster

And that’s it for today’s episode.  As ever, the answer to a better question often leads to more questions. So, let me leave you with a few to ponder:

• Would more women in the workplace lead to more profits for your company?
• Are you taking purposeful action to recruit, retain and advance women in equal proportion to their numbers and commensurate with the potential they offer?
• Are you actively providing support to encourage the women in your C-suite and board to mentor other women within the company?

________

 

To download the research relating to this episode’s better question and search for the answers to many others, go to www.ey.com. To hear more, subscribe to the full podcast series, and if we’ve got you thinking a little differently about gender equality in your business, consider leaving us a review.

The better the question, the better the answer, the better the world works.
Until next time, goodbye.

Disclaimer: The views of third parties set out in this publication are not necessarily the views of the global EY organization or its member firms. Moreover, they should be seen in the context of the time they were made.