How space economy is crucial for all future industries

In this episode of the Decoding Innovation podcast, Hemali Vyas from NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory explores the space economy and shares the impact of systems thinking on future technologies.

Key takeaways:

Systems thinking enables a strategic approach to dissecting and addressing issues while proactively managing potential risks for improved outcomes.
Effective collaboration aids diverse perspectives, fostering consensus to overcome intricate challenges with collective intelligence.
Adapt to strategies that involve creating new markets and demand in an uncontested space. Differentiate from competitors and focus on innovation to avoid direct competition.
Encouraging STEM and STEAM disciplines nurtures analytical and creative skills, fueling the next wave of innovative thinkers and creators.

For your convenience, full text transcript of this podcast is also available.

Welcome to the Decoding Innovation podcast series, brought to you by the EY-Nottingham Spirk Innovation Hub, where we explore the innovative technologies, business models and ideas that are shaping the future of industries. During each episode, we meet with stakeholders at the cutting edge to discuss innovations in their space, challenges they need to overcome and their outlook on the future.

Brent Duersch

Welcome to the Decoding Innovation podcast! I'm your host, Brent Duersch, and I'm coming to you from the EY-Nottingham Spirk Innovation Hub in Cleveland. I am joined, today, by Hemali Vyas, who is a project support manager at the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory. Hemali, welcome to the show.

Hemali Vyas

Thank you, Brent. I'm looking forward to our conversations.

Duersch

Excellent. Well, let's get started. Before we get into the line of questions today, let's talk a little bit about your background. Could you tell us a little bit about your career journey so far?

Vyas

Okay. It's been quite a bit of a long journey, but it has been interesting for me. Currently, I'm at NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), Pasadena, California. And I actually did start my journey from NASA JPL, as a student, as a software engineer for the Deep Space Network. I got my bachelor's and master's in electrical engineering. And then I moved on to Northrop Grumman for a little while; and then came back again to JPL, working on a concept called Mars Network, where at one point we wanted to do a relay orbiters just like Starlink that we have over here, but at that time, six satellites to provide more assets over there for communications; and then again left JPL to go to a startup called Surf Technologies that put Global Positioning System (GPS) on cell phones that opened up location-based services for us; then to L3 for GPS modernization, which is different signals to get better performance on GPS. And since then, I've been back at JPL doing a lot of different things, from GPS signals for radio occultation studies, science instruments, telescopes. And now I'm at the project support office, and that is an institutional organization that goes across all the projects, all the space flight projects, to support them for mission success.

Duersch

Excellent. So, could you expand a little bit just on what kind of projects you and your team have been working on at NASA?

Vyas

Okay, we've worked on, if I go through everything from Deep Space Network, which tracks everything, all the way to Voyager, which is out of our solar system, it takes about, I think, 18 or 20 hours just for the signal to get there, to talk with. So, I worked on that for the software, I worked on what used to be what is Artemis now, but it was a constellation project in 2008 timeframe, which is going back to the moon and Mars, the revamp of it is the Artemis program that we have now. I worked on some science instrument for a SPHEREx mission that launched soon, which is a cosmology mission. So, it was all about the science instruments and detectors and stuff. On the Surf side, I was the project manager and also the systems engineer for the GPS chip side to make sure that we delivered on time and for the market. And we did succeed on that. Basically, I've gone through a lot of different project problems and I'm not in a one-dimensional lane. I like applying my skill set to different projects, to open up the curiosity that I have and learning about different things. At one point, I also assisted in the strategic plan for Jet Propulsion Laboratory in terms of what do we look at for the future, and then on some aspects given in the project support office. We also do a lot of flight projects and the infrastructure support, so IT-related tasks that help the flight projects, also worked on that.

Duersch

Fantastic, so let's maybe take some elements of your career journey step by step and talk a little bit about each one of them, because you have a very unique perspective from having spent time in the private sector, the public sector, helped launch startups. You've seen innovation from a variety of different angles. So, maybe first, you know, could you talk about some of the innovation challenges that you saw during your time in the private sector and how some of those challenges were overcome or addressed?

Vyas

There are two different roles in the private sector, I would say. I'm going to focus on: one is working at a startup, and one is creating a startup. Working at a startup, obviously, you know, this is a slightly defined role of what your role should be, but there's also a boundaryless ability to work across different segments, because resources are limited, because it was sort of an established, I think it was 150 people when I joined the startup. There was always a concern about will there be enough funding to take you to the next level, and also the competition, right? So, there was always a concern that would that ever be a problem? And as a team, we succeeded over there. It actually went in Initial Public Offering (IPO) at one point, and then got sold out to different pieces.
In terms of the private sector startup on our domain, I think it was initially when we started our Logistics International, it was self-funded. And then that was a time when 2008 financial crisis hit. So, what we were trying to do was bring visibility to supply chain networks, because supply chain is such a manual process, at individual nodes where you take warehouse and transportation or any kind of customs, everything. So, we're trying to add like visibility so that we can have an efficient approach to supply chain. It was a time where people didn't understand what supply chain meant. This is pre-COVID-19. Technology wasn't there, computing wasn't there, cloud wasn't there. And then people are still used to holding on to their data. So, I think we succeeded, but not to the level as much. The second startup that we started about five or six years ago was about recognizing that warehouses are not fully utilized, 30% of its resources are not utilized. Their planning is very manual. So, what happens in peak season times? Their planning kind of peaks up. They have to plan six months ahead on how much they have to fill up. And then the rest of the season, they're like loss. On an average, it was 30%-35% of resources that were not used. It was a little bit more near real-time planning versus planning ahead of time for the warehouses; and also for small customers, it gives them a chance to go on a platform to find warehouse for themselves.

Duersch

Right. So, expanding a little bit on the warehousing startup, can you talk a little bit about both how the idea was conceived and maybe how that idea evolved throughout the course of that startup journey?

Vyas

The idea was evolved, so, you know, I have some exposure to supply chain because my spouse is in supply chain industry, and I bring the technology perspective to it. We had been discussing about this problem for a while. And now that technology's quite a bit ripe in so many different areas, we felt like it was the right time to address it. So, we worked with a private equity person and build that up. We actually went through the typical startup phase that we have right now with angel funding, family and friends funding; created an actual MVP, which is a minimum viable product, to kind of show our potential clients and end investors what this means and how does this take further. And so, we kind of built that platform. We got the funding and then we moved forward. The learning lesson that we got out of it is that, “Oh, this is going to be perfect and move forward.” It wasn't as easy as that because, you know, warehouses are owned by companies, and they have their clients and their products. And so, they had to protect anything coming into their warehouse. There was the insurance aspect of it. There was a legality aspect of it. And it did require a little bit more handshake to work with the clients, one-on-one to make that happen.

Duersch

Got it, got it. And could you talk a little bit about how the business model was constructed around this startup? And if that business model sort of evolved over time as well?

Vyas

The business model, so it took a little research. I had spent some time understanding, being in California, the California market. I also took some time to understand the development that was going on to build more warehouse spaces. It seemed like there was a need for warehouse spaces. And so there was a lot of state documents that I went through in terms of the potential development that was going on. So, it was kind of trying to take advantage of the resource that was underutilized versus trying to build new infrastructure, which is a lot of CapEx also, to come up with this model and try to build that and take it forward.

Duersch

So, as you had made this shift from NASA and come into the startup world, what sort of a mindset shift did you have to go through as you went through that transition?

Vyas

Okay, so I actually did not make a shift from NASA. I was doing both at the same time.

Duersch

Excellent.

Vyas

Yeah, so, the shift in and I think part of it is my previous, you know, NASA Department of Defense (DoD) experience, combined with my startup experience that allowed me to integrate that thought process for this particular scenario. I felt like I learned a lot from a NASA perspective, dealing with complex problems in a systems way of thinking, came to the picture of it, and working at the startup, the boundaryless approach where there is less bureaucracy, you can kind of solve any problem. I think that together helped me over here a lot more because there was nothing that needed permission as much as you just kind of move forward and start solving the problem wherever the need was at.

Duersch

You mentioned systems thinking. Could you expand a little bit on what systems thinking is and how you've made it a part of your approach to innovation over the years?

Vyas

Yeah, so systems thinking is something that I have learned and grown through mostly my NASA JPL experience, but it's also a DoD, aerospace defense. Again, most of my experiences are at NASA JPL. And systems thinking is basically, you know, you take any problem and you have an ability to think about it from top-down and bottom-up approach, or another way of thinking strategically with tactical mindset, if that makes sense. The intent is that you want the system to operate efficiently, but before you get to that systems, you're going to have to build up its components. And so, you want to have enough understanding about those components, how they come together so that the system operates and then dive down into a component that needs attention, rather than worrying about all the details of all the components. So, the ability to switch back and forth, to address the problem systematically is what I would say is systems thinking. Along with that, understanding the risk and mitigation paths to address it because you know nothing is risk-free, right? So, you got to really give, and that experience comes from working on spacecrafts and space technologies, because you got to think about a lot of risks that may come up and have mitigation plans for it. I think solving top-down and bottom-up, along with risk mitigation, is kind of what I would say is systems thinking.

Duersch

And is there an example that you could share with us, a story you could walk us through of how systems thinking was applied to solve a big hairy challenge?

Vyas

I did work on this very step one proposal, and I was the instrument systems engineer at that time for the mid-wave infrared instrument. And that required the understanding of the science requirements, and how does that translate into the instrument requirements and building that. At the same time, identifying the risk, for example, one of the risks would have been the detectors that we were using, and the detectors, you know, will they come on time, for example, right? And how do you mitigate that? And if they come on time, will they meet performance? How do you mitigate that? So, it's kind of working through those little step components while at the same time trying to map to what are the science performance requirements. That is kind of one-way. If I look at it from a GPS perspective that we're working at, I was trying to make sure if the performance of this GPS is going to take like five minutes for it to compute my location, which is not going to be acceptable. They call it time to first fix (TTFF) so how do I reduce that with the low power? Because you can't take a GPS chip, take up the full power of your cell phone, it destroys the purpose of that, right? So, I think, it's that kind of a thinking where you're diving into the simulations, you're diving into the testing to make sure it's working. At the same time, you're keeping your customer mindset very open, saying, “Okay, I need this to be operating in a customer scenario and not take it over.” You know, if you're just a GPS engineer, for example, it'll be like, “Oh my God, I'm just going to focus on that without giving a customer mindset.” But if you think in terms of system, in terms of market, in terms of sponsors and market, I'm using it very carefully because, on the NASA side, market is not a very well-recognized term, but it is needed in the sense that your clients, your sponsors or whatever, you got to think in those terms, to be able to succeed. It's not just the development.

Duersch

So, we've talked a little bit about what you were able to bring from the world of NASA, from a thought process standpoint around systems thinking into the world of startups. Let's flip that around a little bit and talk about, are there lessons you've learned through the world of working in the startup world that you've been able to take back and integrate into your work at NASA?

Vyas

Definitely. I think the boundaryless thought process, the problem needs to be solved. And, you know, how do you deal with the boundary scenario, which, as the organizations grow, they need a little more structure for efficiency and so on. It creates boundaries. And so how do you address those boundaryless concepts in a little bit more larger organization? And so, yeah, I've tried to apply that; it takes a little effort. It takes a little mind of consensus and collaboration. And as an example, I was given a task few years, couple of years ago, where in today's time, IT is a baseline infrastructure where every organization operates from. So, no matter what your purpose is, whether it's space or medicine or whatever, we all need IT infrastructure. And so, I was given a task to work with the IT team to help provide efficient methodologies, to support the flight projects, because a lot of times flight projects come in last minute saying, “I need this IT support” or, you know, whatever their needs are. And suddenly it becomes a huge task for the IT team, becomes more expensive, would have a schedule impact. So, the intent was to see if we can develop an approach to an infrastructure IT or flight projects, so that the IT needs are met in a timely and cost-effective way. And in that scenario, we had defined the problem scenario. We actually worked closely with the IT team. We defined the scenario, worked with every project and said, “Here's the problem and here's how we could get if you can assist us and give us in production what you need through different lifecycle phases of your project. We can try to integrate that with what other projects need and see if we could take a bulk buy approach to reduce costs and to reduce schedule.” And something like that is a little hard to do when you have IT and when you have flight projects, right? Because I think, culturally, they are not used to it from the past. There was no such thing as IT 20-30 years ago, you just said computer needs. And so there is a mindset change that you have to help merge together from an IT perspective, because on the IT side, it's like, “Why don't they get us?” It's just trying to help each other understand. And so, we worked very closely together and we identified a solution. We not only talked to quite a few projects, got their feedback, integrated their feedback, came up with an approach in process, and then we actually went to all the management stakeholders to get the consensus, got it approved and created a plan, an approach where, as of right now, about eight or nine of our projects are implementing it.

Duersch

So, having been in that boundaryless startup world and then thinking about the environment that you're in at NASA today, what are some of the inherent advantages you see that a large agency like NASA has when it comes to investing in and driving innovative efforts?

Vyas

So, I want to clarify that a little bit, in the sense of innovative efforts. I think, when it comes to innovation, the innovation in NASA JPL is at an exponential level. So, I'm talking about the space flight innovation, right? There's so much of research, so much of technology development that goes on. When it comes to innovation of what's happening in the industry for enterprises, that adaptation requires a little bit of blending the two cultures together, because you have IT with what's happening in the industry, and you have space flight, their innovation. And so that requires really merging the boundaries and helping each other see to say, “Hey, we are all the parts of the same problem. We're trying to solve a bigger purpose.” And having solved the enterprise solution will actually help the flight project success. And having understood the flight project will actually help the IT to understand how to support the needs. So, if I go back to again NASA JPL, I think they are wonderful in terms of space-related innovation. And there's a recognition and there's an effort going on of how to improve the enterprise transformation because, you know, I think, every organization, whether NASA or not, is dealing with this enterprise transformation because it’s technology to cut job, we have cheaper computing, cheaper processing, cheaper storage and now artificial intelligence (AI) and machine learning (ML). So, everyone's trying to figure out how to apply that.

Duersch

So, on the topic of you brought up, AI and ML, can you talk a little bit about how you've seen that playing out within NASA and within the jet propulsion programs?

Vyas

I don't know much on the NASA end, but on the JPL end, just last summer, I think, like every other organization, we're trying to figure out how to use it. I think there was a pilot project that our co-organization did with a student intern, in terms of how you apply. We have a lot of documentations that we call rules, where it defines some of the specificity of how a flight project should execute. What are some of the design principles that we should not forget about? Because, again, you go in space or unknown factors, you got to think through all of that. So, there's a lot of that documentation that projects have to be assessed on and apply and comply by. This effort was trying to take AI-ML kind of mindset, especially like with ChatGPT rising, right, to see how we could feed this documentation and apply toward this stuff. And it was a pilot project. I think there is a use case to apply to it, but there's also a fundamental background. Any AI-ML model needs learning; so, there's a learning effort that needs to be put in. There's a computing that is going to be needed. There is a protection of cybersecurity. You can't just go to an external ChatGPT. So, you got to figure out those factors internally because of the cyber threats. There are all these things that are coming into the play. So, in terms of applicability, yes, there is. In terms of the implementation of that applicability, it would take some time.

Duersch

So, to pivot just a little bit, you're the chair of the Space Economy Committee at The American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA), correct?

Vyas

Yes

Duersch

So, I want to talk a little bit about this. We spend a lot of time working with our clients at the Innovation Hub, around their challenges of commercializing innovation on Earth, right? So, I'm excited to talk about space commercialization and what that means. To start out, can you talk a little bit conceptually around the challenges you're dealing with when we talk about space commercialization?

Vyas

Okay. So first of all, I want to say when we think of space, we think of this one big black cosmos, when we look up. When we think about space economy, you know, I was trying to dive into that problem, what that means. And then I realized, I think, when we talk about space economy, we cannot just talk about this big black thing that's out there. I think there is a need for it to be categorized a little bit in terms of the nodes. I call it nodes of space economy. So, anything around Earth, whether it's LEO, which is Low Earth Orbit, or GEO, which is Geostationary Orbit, anything around Earth, lunar-cislunar, Mars and beyond, to me, those are individual nodes. And I think we should be thinking about space economy in terms of those nodes, because the investment, the risk, the maturity, the supply chain, all of those nodes differ, depending on where you're applying it. So, if you take any space economy that is Earth-related, we already see the growth in there. At the same time, there are three different components for space economy, if you just focus on the Earth side of it. And that model applies to wherever. But I'm going to focus on Earth. You see the upstream, which is the manufacturing side of it, where you are manufacturing satellites and your payloads and anything, any support equipment, test equipment that go with it. Then you see the midstream, which is your launch vehicle areas, right, anything to launch it and anything, any ground systems to support it. And then you see a downstream which is your space data products and how do you use that. And I think it's a downstream. They all have a component toward economy. The downstream data is where there is a lot of growth happening, including with the upstream where there's a lot more satellites being launched now. So, I think, you know, GPS is a perfect example of the downstream data space economy. It just opened up. Once we were able to compute GPS on our cell phones or on our watches, it just opened up the market for location-based services. Same thing with Starlink. As we increase our network globally, you're going to see a lot more business and personal applications where people want to use that in remote areas. Just throwing out as an example, this is a visionary not there, but you could do anything from customizing your fashion across someone in Italy or India or whatever. Because now you can talk to the person and maybe there is a 3D printing approach of manufacturing some samples and getting it sent. You know, there’s ways of pushing your edge. Whether it's there or not right now, no, but these are the opportunities that could open up. Supply chain is another one; with communications and imaging it could open up the industry even more with more efficient methods. Climate change is another one, where the NASA or science data will open up industries, where insurance industries and real estate industries are interested in the space data products, who figure out that. So that's the Earth economy. When you start coming to lunar-cislunar, you start seeing signs. You had two commercial companies that made an attempt to land in the moon. There were some failures, but that doesn't mean they won't come back. And so, there is a support from NASA on that. And there's also support from private industries funding it. There are signs showing up on lunar-cislunar. There's a strategic reason. There's geopolitical reasons. So, I think there might be a push to get there at some point. Maturity of that is a little low. There is risk associated with it. And then Mars is, to me, a little bit further off in terms. And then you talk about space industries, space tourism. I would say it's a little low maturity. There's a lot that needs to happen there. But what if private space station comes in, maybe medical research on private space station could be a big boom. Agriculture research could be a big boom because, you know, you can learn whatever you do and bring that down. So, there are all these different things. But again, I think it's important to think in terms of nodes and frameworks, and not just bundle everything up into one big black space.
One other thing that I wanted to add is we're now in the phase where cheap computing, cheap processing, cloud, AI, ML and space and low cost of launch. And so, a lot of pieces are coming together where space economies are starting to grow. But I wanted to clarify that when we think in terms of space economy, we understand it's not just about launching and putting things in space. I think a lot of growth comes down to the downstream economy. So, companies should be thinking about either how do I use this for my efficiency and my better growth? Or how do I create new companies that take advantage of this space data products, whether it's climate change, whether it's insurance, whether it's health industry. Or another way is, you know, there's a lot of technology transfers, right? That could happen where startups could look at the technologies that would develop and work together to create another economy based on some innovations that has happened. So, I feel like there's a lot of times we just kind of isolate ourselves. “Space. Oh, that's not us.” But in reality, it is everyone, either as a user or as a creator or as marketing or finance or anything. I just want to clarify like space is really does require an integration of it all.

Duersch

So, if you think a little bit about this space economy, now you've got startups, public players, private players, all in the mix from different angles. What's the spirit like between those different entities. Is it one of collaboration. Is it one of cooperation? Is it competition? Is it a little bit of all of the above? What does that environment look like?

Vyas

I don't think it's competition yet with traditional industries. I think the new startups still need the traditional industries for anything you do. So again, if I take the example of Intuitive Machines and Astrobotic that was trying to land, they needed NASA as a sponsor or as a client, right? So, there is that relationship. There's a strong relationship between the two. I think the opportunity is great in terms of private industries going there, not only the fact that startups want to create something, but the fact that VCs want to fund it. So, when VCs are ready to fund it, that means that you see that they are seeing some opportunities going over there. I think from the traditional industry perspective, it might require a little bit of a relook at it. And to me, I think it's almost like maybe there's a need for blue ocean strategy mindset over there. I think government agencies are not out there to compete with private industries. Their job is to help private industries, it has always been the case. NASA's always done one-of-a-kind create science and exploration and then come up with technology innovations. Then a lot of times, gets transferred off to, as an example, the complementary metal oxide semiconductor (CMOS) detectors that in our cameras was an innovation from JPL. I mean, the fact that we can have this great resolution pictures on our cameras was a technology transfer from space. And there are many other innovations like that, right? Memory foam mattresses and air purifiers and all of that stuff. So I think, you will still see government agencies pursuing toward what the industry cannot afford to, but we still need to have that leap. But I think, when it starts getting to in a recurring sense, you will probably see a lot more private industries coming in and government being a lot more, using their services versus creating their services. So, I think, everyone is still trying to figure out where that would go, but I don't think it's going to be one versus the other. It's going to be some sort of a collaboration. It will require traditional industries to think about it, saying, “What should we be doing?” because some of the things we want. And I actually have to be very appreciative of JPL because they did actually combine one of the carbon plume missions, which is funded by a private foundation with JPL's design, experience with planets, implementation. So, you see, you start seeing these things down, where there's a collaboration with the private funding, JPL as expert of design and recurring production from commercial companies. So, I think you'll start seeing a lot more models like this. What exactly turns out to be is to be seen. But I would definitely say that we do need to move toward a blue ocean strategy, like what should we be doing? And there's a lot of opportunities, a lot of innovation at NASA JPL, so how do we take advantage of that innovation.

Duersch

So, there's so many things you said that I want to double click on. We'll take them in some sequence here. But you've mentioned blue ocean several times. And for the sake of our listeners and viewers, could you talk a little bit about what blue ocean strategy is like, define that a little bit so that everybody kind of understands that concept?

Vyas

Okay. So, I need to give its parallel: blue ocean red ocean strategy is an assessment mindset framework process. I think most of us are in the red ocean strategy where we are doing competitive assessments and SWOTs and trying to figure out how we can compete. So, I would call that as a tactical strategy, right, like trying to survive within your competition. Blue ocean strategy is understanding the landscape. So, I wouldn't say you don't look at your competition, but it's really understanding your landscape of competition and see, can you jump out of there in a different area, where you're taking advantage of the innovation that you may have to offer in an area that the competitors are not there, for lack of better word, or “other players are not there” is probably a better word. And what trends do you have? What innovation can you bring so you create these brand new opportunities, right? I think, for me, SpaceX is one of them, so was developing its launch vehicle the way it was. Space-X went back, recognized that there was technology growth, did first principles and built a reusable launch vehicle. And that eventually opened up industries that we're seeing right now over the last couple of years, where a lot more private companies are going up in space, because the cost to launch has reduced quite a bit. Given said that, I won't say that it was just them. They did end up using a lot of resources from the traditional industries also. So, there is a talent transfer that happened. But again, I think a private company taking that risk was a blue ocean strategy from my mindset because they were not trying to do what has been done. They stepped away to see and they weren't really trying to compete. They were really trying to innovate and open up new markets. So, one of the things that I think is the blue ocean approach that EY teams are doing through their wavespace program, where they are bringing in luminaries from other fields, not their typical client support, into their clients to bring a different perspective in solving a problem. And so, as an example, there was one scenario where there was a need for how to address autonomous operations in a very human-intense activity during COVID-19 area and wanted to go live. And so, in that case, having a space mindset and a space application, I was kind of able to walk through them about how we operate in an autonomous way in a space environment and what kind of things, what kind of risk you need to think about. What kind of preparation, what kind of real-time operation scenarios do you need to train and plan for? So, it's a perfect example, and I think the EY organization seems to be in the right mindset and pathway to say, “Hey, not all the problems have to be solved with the same subject-matter experts.” Bringing SMEs or subject-matter experts from outside of the industry can give a different perspective to solve a problem, which is to some extent a blue ocean mindset.

Duersch

So, you've made a couple references to this technology transfer that can take place between Earth and space and space and the Earth. In your perspective, which industries on the ground do you think could actually be most transformed by what we learn in space in the future?

Vyas

There's quite a few. In terms of applications, I think supply chain industry can be transformed. If you're paying attention to space asset, I think, I was reading something on climate change and the fact there is the relationship between climate change in certain industries. And there was this one scenario. The fact that there is ice melting happening on the northern side; that could potentially open up a supply chain route suddenly. I am like, “Hmm. Interesting.” So, I think, or the visibility that you get by the space monitoring and space data that could transform the supply chain networks and bring efficiencies to your supply chains and maybe real-time transitions. I mean, you have this whole pirate scenario that's going on that you have to reroute, depending on what's going on. So, I think definitely a supply chain industry, but it's not limited to that. I think if private space stations come in, there is an opportunity for medical research in a microgravity environment. I think there's some benefit to the crystal structures that operate better in the microgravity environment, where the research can then translate into better medicines down here on Earth. In fact, a couple of industries have already tried some of the microgravity, ISS — International Space Station. There has been some testing over there. 3D manufacturing — there's a big intent of trying 3D manufacturing also in space. There have been some tests already in space station. There are talks about, let's say, if you really do well in space with where we are going, then maybe there's some 3D manufacturing components that could happen for space assets. Agriculture, you know, there's research again on the space station. But if you start having private space stations, there could be an opportunity also in agriculture over there. So, I don't think the opportunities are limited. I think, we do need to think beyond what we think today, to see how we can utilize that and take advantage of AI-ML and computing and all of that. They all come together to make it happen.

Duersch

So, looking across that landscape of everything from supply chain to different forms of research, manufacturing, even tourism, which one personally excites you the most and why?

Vyas

I would say, definitely, private space station is something I'm interested in because it opens up a lot more research capability. But beyond that, I think, downstream data products for climate change, any kind of gap fillers for space assets for climate change. I was just listening to Simon Sinek yesterday. He was invited at JPL to speak yesterday. And one of the questions was, you know, climate change believers and nonbelievers. And he said, I think the messaging is it impacts the human race. So, if we really think about that and take advantage of climate change data products and see how we help ourselves, how we monitor, how we address what we need to do, there's industry that can actually open that up in terms of the data products that come in from a lot of these Earth-observing satellites. So, those two and then supply chain, definitely, because I don't think we can survive without supply chain.

Duersch

So, we're going to pivot just a little bit. When I was looking at your bio, you were a self-described multi-potentialite. And I saw that term I, I love that term. And what I'd like you to do is unpack that a little bit, explain to our viewers and our listeners what that means to you.

Vyas

Okay, so I did not create that term. So, I'll kind of definitely share that. I'll just tell you my history of how I got there. I love a lot of different things. I'm very curious about a lot of different things. I love challenges and solving challenging problems. As we talked about systems thinking and boundaryless and seamless and all of that together, I like to apply that to anything that draws my curiosity. When I started creating a profile for myself, I had a hard time being in a certain lane. I was like, I don't know, how do I explain my profile to anyone? Because it could end up looking like hopscotching, which it isn't. It's really integrating a lot of experience and solving. I call it problem agnostic. You know, I would love to apply it to any problem. And then, somehow I came across this Ted X, and I think her name was Emily, and it said multi-potentialite. I'm like, “Okay, let me look at what she's saying.” And every word she said, I'm like, “Oh, I feel like I'm that.” I have a lot of interests. I have a lot of curiosity. I like to do a lot of different things, sometimes at the same time, like NASA JPL and Warehouse Exchange, for example, or owning a hospitality company and stuff like that. So, I love to do a lot of things. I'm interested in consciousness and collective intelligence and everything. There's no limit to that. But it felt like I could not define myself. And when I came across that term, multi-potentialite, I felt like it helped define me a little bit more better. It gave a little more, better identity for me, that it's someone who really is curious about a lot and would like to apply themselves to a lot of different problems, rather than being in a single lane.

Duersch

So, how do you see that contributing to your ability and the ability of others when it comes to being able to drive innovation, to create innovation?

Vyas

I think what that does is that because you have this experience, a varied experience, from each experience, you learn something and as you increase and expand that area of experience, now suddenly you in your mindset, you can probably create analogies, you can create patterns, and you can start applying those analogies and patterns to whatever else may be outside. So, I feel like it has made it much more interesting for me, because I can apply that mindset to just about any industry or any problem. Just within JPL now, so if I just stick to that, my background was communications. From there, I went to a startup that was doing GPS for a chip on the ground, and then I came back, and I did science instruments involving detectors and infrared detectors. And now I'm doing institutional relationship that combines both technical as well as programmatic as well as approach in processes and enterprise for IT. So, it wasn't as much of a problem, but as much of a curiosity, the challenge of the problem. And how do I apply my experience and what patterns can I create? And at the end of the day, I really do believe everything is integrated. And the more we see in terms of the integrated fashion, the more we can help each other solve the problems in a much more better and efficient ways.

Duersch

And coming at it from a multi-potentialite viewpoint, how does that impact your perspective, your approach to collaboration?

Vyas

Collaboration is very, very important. We don't live in an isolated mode. When we're working, whether you're a two- or three-people startup or a 5,000-people company or more, anything that we do is a collaboration, right? So, I think, to me, collaboration does not mean that we need everybody's vote. But collaboration is really understanding the problem, and its silos and seeing where the gaps are, and communicating the gaps in a team fashion to resolve. And in a mathematical term, I'll say create a Venn diagram of it, like see where all the circles meet. We all have our individual desires or expectations. But when we come together, we'll find that sweet spot in there. To me, that's collaboration. And through that collaboration, we get that consensus from the appropriate stakeholders and move forward. Because it's not just about agreement, but it's also making sure stakeholders are included in there so that you can actually get to the success of what you're trying to solve.

Duersch

Building on the theme of collaboration a little bit, I know you've taken a real commitment to diversity in your work and really tried to bring a wider range of people and students into science fields through STEM programs. Could you expand a little bit on the work that you're doing there?

Vyas

Yeah, so that one is a little bit multifaceted. As AIAA, I have a couple of different roles in AIAA, definitely the Economics Committee Chair is one of it, but I also am chair of the local region. And then in that local region, we try to do a lot of activities that brings in young professionals, that brings in high-school students. In fact, we just participated in a high-school student fair to bring awareness on the STEM industries and aerospace industries. I was, in fact, mentoring one of the high-school students who graduated last year and was awarded by AIAA as she transitioned to undergrad. And she reached out to me on mentoring her for her path and whatever questions she may have. And then, besides that, at University of Southern California (USC) Viterbi, I've supported as advisory for their startup roles and mentors over there, just a combination of different things that I'm trying to help out wherever I can. It's a “pay it forward” mindset.

Duersch

So, in closing, if there was one piece of advice you would give to students or, I'm not sure how many of our listeners and viewers are students, maybe the parents of students, around the importance of STEM education, what would you like to tell people? What would you like them to take away?

Vyas

I think in terms of Science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM) education, speaking to the parents of the students, I think exposure, a lot more experimental exposure to STEM. I think, sometimes education is a little bit more rigid about solving math problems. But if we solve math problems but don't know how to apply it, it makes it a little bit hard. But as soon as you open up the applicability of STEM, the curiosity on its own will take the students where they want to go. So, exposure is an important thing. Analytical skill set that comes out of it, I think STEM is one area; actually, I should say Science, technology, engineering, arts and mathematics (STEAM) nowadays is a lot more interesting. The analytical exposure from STEM is very, very important because it allows us to really logically think about anything rather than accepting it blindly. And I added A part of the STEAM, because art is also as important as STEM, because it enhances your creativity. When you combine your analytical mindset with your creativities, and you combine your left and your right hemispheres, you get to see problems in a lot more integrated fashion. And like I said, I'm all about integrated view. I'm all about combining together, coming together, so we solve a lot more bigger problems or come up with bigger solutions in an integrated way, where we’re including everyone and also thinking from different perspectives.

Duersch

So Hemali, this has been a fascinating discussion. And in closing today, I would just like to ask, is there any guidance, is there any advice you would like to leave our listeners and viewers with, today?

Vyas

Thanks, Brent. One thing I would like to leave at is to always have an ability to think in terms of systems thinking, and when I say systems thinking, I'm not thinking in terms of compliances, but in terms of really taking the opportunity to ask questions, why or how is it relevant or not. And I think, applying that with STEM and STEAM, you know, STEM being the analytical mindset and STEAM being the A part of the arts and creativity, I think the ability to combine the two, so that we're using a left and right brain, both at the same time, I think, will give us a better way to see things in an integrated fashion. And I think systems thinking is really the way to go. It can apply to any kinds of problems set, any kind of solutions at any level by anyone. And I think it's needed not to think in terms of innovation and also to execute on our innovations and our strategies.

Duersch

That's great. I can't think of a better note to end today's discussion on, Hemali. Thank you again for your time. I really, really appreciate your time today and your perspective. And, really, just want to wish you the best in all of your endeavors.

Vyas

Thank you so much, Brent. It was really great talking to you today. I truly enjoyed our conversations.
The Decoding Innovation podcast series is a limited production of the EY-Nottingham Spirk Innovation Hub based in Cleveland, Ohio. For more information, visit our website at ey.com/decoding innovation. If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe. Leave a review wherever you get your podcast and be sure to spread the word.

Presenters

Brent Duersch

Managing Director, EY-Nottingham Spirk Innovation Hub, Ernst & Young LLP

Hemali Vyas
Project Support Manager, NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory

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Episode 28

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54m 8s

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EY refers to the global organization, and may refer to one or more, of the member firms of Ernst & Young Global Limited, each of which is a separate legal entity. Ernst & Young Global Limited, a UK company limited by guarantee, does not provide services to clients.

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Brent Duersch

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