Energy Drivers - Can Canada’s energy transition succeed at the grid level amid rising electrification and affordability pressures?

00:00:01 - 00:00:54

Lance Mortlock

Welcome to the next episode of The Energy Drivers Podcast. I'm Lance Mortlock, your host for today's discussion with Jana Mosley, the President and Chief Executive Officer of Toronto Hydro. Throughout our series, we invite Canadian energy and industrial leaders to engage in discussions on key issues, share insights and pose challenging questions. Today, we're pleased to welcome Jana, who leads Canada's largest municipal electricity distributor and serves a city that sits at the centre of Ontario's Energy Association and a board member of Electricity Canada and the Western Energy Institute and a member of the Toronto Region Board of Trade Executive Committee, bringing a national and cross-sector perspective to today's discussion. So, Jana, thank you for joining our podcast.

00:00:55 - 00:00:56

Jana Mosley

Thanks for having me, Lance.

00:00:57 - 00:00:58

Lance Mortlock

How have you been?

00:00:59 - 00:01:06

Jana Mosley

I'm doing great. Sun is out and spring is coming. So I think everybody's smiling and the Blue Jays are playing again. So that's exciting too.

00:01:07 - 00:01:27

Lance Mortlock

That's good. Yeah. Sunny here today in Calgary. So, to get started, some of our listeners may be less familiar with your role, the role that utilities play in the broader energy system. Can you just briefly share your background and walk us through Toronto Hydro's mandate at a high level?

00:01:28 - 00:05:05

Jana Mosley

Yeah, absolutely. So, I've spent my career in a few different industries. I started in the pulp and paper industry. I spent some time in oil and gas down in Texas and really loved the energy industry and so I spent a lot of time in Calgary before moving to Toronto and really have worked across all elements of the value chain.

So, in energy, it starts with generation. I've been part of companies that have owned generation from gas to wind. I've consulted and developed projects on solar and I worked with pure play transmission, so now the big wires are going to take that generation. I have also worked with the planning authority, the independent system operator in Alberta, in terms of planning the overall grid and looking at the overall market.

And then I have worked in both transmission distribution companies more locally and in urban environments. When I was at ENMAX and I consulted for a period of time, really helping industrials, large pipeline companies who are looking to connect to the grid or different types of generators, looking to locate and help them through those different processes and looking at the economics.

And now I'm in a pure play distribution company, so really enjoying being here at Toronto Hydro. As you mentioned, we are a very large urban distributor and Toronto drives, 20% of Canada's GDP, so really important that everybody has the electricity that they need to keep the lights on and keep churning away at the value that they bring.

We have 3 million people that were serving, people in businesses here in the GTA. We invest almost $1 billion a year in growing and maintaining our grid. And really, as we look forward, our mandate is threefold. Certainly, any utility we need to be operationally excellent. So that's everything Lance that's from making sure we're keeping our people and the public safe, that we're providing reliable service, and that becomes even more and more important as people are looking to electrify and how they, , serve their energy needs at home and in transit. And then, of course, we're focused on making sure that we are continuing to improve our customers’ experience. So that's everything I wrap up when I talk about being operationally excellent.

That's table stakes for a company like ours. We're also a key player in supporting and driving economic growth. And really important right now in Ontario with all the geopolitical pressures that we have and tariffs, really making sure that people want to come and locate their businesses here in Toronto and that they see that it is easy to do business with the utility and get connected and certainly that we're delivering value to our shareholder, the City of Toronto, through our financial performance.

And then finally, it is really important and part of our mandate to be advancing sustainability. And the best way we do that certainly is making sure that we have a grid that's going to serve electricity needs now and in the future, but also shifting how we plan and how we operate. And so, as you well know, the grid of the future really does need to be a much more modern grid.

And we are connecting different type of resources, needing to enable two way power flow and really look at how we operate and be that distribution system operator of the future, so that we are a utility of choice. So really exciting mandate and I'm very excited and privileged to be here leading this company through this time.

00:05:06 - 00:05:44

Lance Mortlock

So, you've worked coast to coast and I think that puts you in a unique position in terms of the different market structures that you might have in Alberta, your time at ENMAX and now with Toronto Hydro in Ontario. Alberta relies on this competitive generation, while Ontario operates a centralized wholesale system.

Yet both also share some similarities like regulated T&D. Drawing on your coast-to-coast experience, what elements of these systems are better suited to today's evolving needs?

00:05:45 - 00:08:17

Jana Mosley

Well, certainly there are different models, but I would say, Lance, that they have the same fundamentals. So strong regulation, reliable networks and electricity is certainly an economic enabler. Some provinces offer more choice and competition, like you mentioned, like Alberta. And while others prioritize that consistency and centralized rate structure and planning approach, and those differences are going to shape how utilities operate and engage with customers.

What I find is that as customers’ needs and the electricity system evolve, there's certainly a growing tension between the benefits of competition, which can certainly help lower costs for customers, and the need for a more centralized approach where you have an increasingly complex grid with more distributed energy resources, customer participation is often better served, with the distribution company acting as that distributor of choice and that orchestrator and planner and without a central role by the distribution company.

I think the competitive model risks creating too many players and customer touchpoints, making the system quite unwieldy and really risking reliability. And certainly, here in Canada, we all know because of our climate, we've got very cold winters and we're now having some very hot summers. People are relying on that grid more than ever and if you start to shift into a way of they’re relying on it now for transportation, we need to make sure that we've got that stability and reliability that grids certainly need to have. My personal view on this, as I've looked at it over the last few years, and you and I have talked about this, working on strategy in a few different organizations is that I think there is certainly a benefit to competitive generation in that overall, lower-cost model in driving that.

But when I think of the end user, I'm not too sure that competitive retail is as valuable when I look at where we're going. And, if I was a customer, I would want to be connected and both physically and from a relationship perspective with the distributor who's actually delivering the electricity. So, I think those are important things to be thinking about by policymakers.

And certainly, policymakers need to be thinking in any jurisdiction who pays for what and how do you support the much-needed system investment without creating unnecessary financial pressures?

00:08:18 - 00:08:59

Lance Mortlock

Yeah. That makes sense. One of the things that you mentioned earlier is, in terms of electrification and some of the changes required and the evolving narrative around energy transition is something that you and I have talked about. Electrification is this future ambition that we've got, but in a city like Toronto, it sounds like a lot of that is already underway to some extent.

How is electricity demand evolving today and what are the most significant drivers of low growth that you're seeing in the future in such a big city like Toronto?

00:09:00 - 00:11:18

Jana Mosley

Well, certainly in Ontario, the independent electric system operator’s latest projection is that demand is going to increase provincially by 65% between now and 2050. So that's the equivalent of adding around four Torontos to the grid. So, it's quite significant. Yeah absolutely. Demand is coming , from a few pockets.  We're going to see approximately 285,000 new homes in the province.

There's certainly major transit expansion happening throughout the province. And certainly, in Toronto, when you think of the hub and the centre that it is for this area. EV adoption, we continue to monitor that. And I'm sure we'll talk a bit more about that. Well, we're not seeing that uptake in the Canada the way you're seeing certainly in the US and other countries abroad.

We're going to continue to watch that. We're seeing, policy decisions that are being made that, may influence that adoption and certainly just increase in business demand. So industrial demand, commercial load and data centres, of course, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention those. And we're watching, as, we focus on data sovereignty and energy security, what other type of demand is going to come up on the system that we need to make sure we're ready to serve. In Toronto in particular, certainly we have a lot more, high-density residential development, right, so fewer individual family homes. But, even in Toronto, we connected over 4,800 new residential customers, completed over 500 connection projects last year.

We continue to invest heavily to modernize the grid. And as I mentioned, this need around just how we're electrifying and modernizing from a place up to a power flow is going to be incredibly important so that customers can get the maximum value from the assets that they're already paying for. So we're right at the centre of the conversation.

It's exciting to be in our industry right now. And our job is to make sure the grid is ready to support this growth while also keeping costs manageable and reliability non-negotiable.

00:11:19 - 00:11:32

Lance Mortlock

 It sounds like you're saying we're still moving down the path in terms of energy transition. We may move a little bit slower given the importance of energy security and reliability, but we're still moving down the path. Am I right? What do you think?

00:11:33 - 00:13:29

Jana Mosley

Well, I think transition is relative. Maybe that's what I take away from what we've been seeing over the last year and even your comments there. We are transitioning. I mean, remember where we were. We were heavy coal. I mean, oil, right? Yeah. People heating homes with oil. And I know we still have some of that's, we're working to move off of as a country.

But we have transitioned and we're going to continue to transition. And I think the investment that's happening in cleaning up, even just regular, oil and gas and at the oil sands, it's amazing innovation that is happening there. And  I think we heard [Canadian Prime Minister Mark] Carney say this recently, Canada is going to do it in the cleanest way possible.

And we are a world leader. So, it is a transition. Is it the last step? No. But , if you look at it over the longer term, I think we are transitioning. I mean, some would argue if you look at what's happening in Ontario, some would argue going back and leveraging nuclear is a transition.

Right. We're going heavy on nuclear here in this province. So, it's happening. It's just policy,  and economic drivers and geopolitical tensions  influencing some of the pace. But quite frankly so is customer behaviour and cost. And so, I still very much believe in a transition. And I think like anything, costs will drive outcomes and you are really seeing the cost of solar in particular come down. And when you partner that with batteries, I think, we're going to continue to see some sort of transition. It may not be at the same pace that some people may have thought, but I think what we're hearing from policymakers is it's going to be, smart from an economic perspective and both for the country and for the people who pay for the electricity.

00:13:30 - 00:13:55

Lance Mortlock

And you mentioned customers. They increasingly want choice, whether it's EV charging, rooftop solar, which you mentioned, smart technologies. I guess how does Toronto Hydro enable that flexibility while still ensuring the system remains, safe, importantly, reliable and fair for all customers?

00:13:56 - 00:16:03

Jana Mosley

Well, I'll start by saying something that, I've talked with my teams over the years as I've led customer service organizations or customer-facing organizations, particularly in a regulated utility sense. My view is just because customers have no choice but to come to us to get their basic electricity needs does not mean that the bar, in terms of what service we need to be providing is lower.

As far as I'm concerned, it's higher and it's higher because there's some basic choice that they don't have. You have to have Toronto Hydro as your distribution company, because we're the only ones distributing power if you live in our service territory. So to me, from a customer lens, if I'm a customer and any type of service that I use, my expectations are even higher because I didn't get to choose.

I'm stuck with you, so to speak, so I'd better be a great experience. So I'm going to be extra frustrated if it's not. So then you evolve that to areas where customers truly do want to use different things in their homes, in a way to influence their cost of electricity, their particular social goals as it relates to sustainability and the climate.

And we need to make sure that we are truly enabling that and we need to be enabling lower-cost options on the grid as well. When you look at load side, demand management and making sure that we're making the cost of every electron really count. So two-way power flow is such an important part of the future because as customers want to connect rooftop solar, as they want to connect EV chargers, as we look at ways to move that extra power around to avoid needing to do incremental and traditional investment in the grid, we need to make sure that, one, we can continue to, provide safe and reliable service.

And that with doing that two-way power flow, you suddenly haven't created other problems where you're going to have reliability issues. But, two, that we are facilitating and enabling that.

00:16:04 - 00:16:34

Lance Mortlock

In terms of EVs, Jana, they're one of the most visible and fastest-moving parts of electrification. But they pose unique challenges, particularly in dense urban environments, of which obviously you're managing that complexity in Toronto all the time. What are the biggest obstacles to scaling EVs in terms of charging in Toronto and how should those responsibilities in some way be shared across different stakeholders?

00:16:35 - 00:19:45

Jana Mosley

Certainly, in urban settings, EV charging is more challenging. And then the older the centre and the more dense it is you just really have an issue of physical space, right? That is one of the biggest hurdles, where are you going to actually put that charger. People in Toronto, all of them, they don't have garages. They don't even have parking garages. Right. They're parking on the street. So, making sure that we're thinking about how people have access to chargers and perhaps public parking spaces when they're going to commercial shopping centres, that is really, really important. It's not an issue when you've got the type of home that can accommodate but in dense urban centres is certainly more complicated.

Case in point on street charging is particularly challenging due to the number of stakeholders involved, even. You've got the public right of way constraints. You've got predominantly residential street parking here in the city, so your access to power connections is a challenge. There's regulatory considerations, we've got private sector players, so the coordination of that is a real challenge.

And the City of Toronto, through the Toronto Parking Authority is really focused on how do they push that forward. But the multiple players makes it a bit of a challenge for sure. I think that one of the things that people maybe don't appreciate completely is that you don't actually need to charge an EV fully every day. It is a common myth that needs to happen.

In reality, most drivers only need to charge them, but as often as they stop for gas, especially if you're just staying local. So, I think that part of it is education and just understanding. Do you really need to charge overnight at your home? Probably not in a lot of cases, unless you're doing a lot of long-distance driving.

So, I do think there's an opportunity to be collaborative between government and certainly the utilities and other players charging companies and developers and landlords, because we all play a different role in that process. And if we're not working on the same problem together, we won't get to the best solution. I'm really excited we have an EV fast charging program that we've just launched and it really it gives local electric vehicle charging providers direct access to 480-volt transformer service, so that's your level three charger, known as public fast charging. People can charge up to 80% in 20 to 45 minutes. So having people being able to pull in and out of those is something that wasn't possible before. And so we are working with developers on that and I think that's going to make a big difference.

We're also looking at, for different entities. We talked about customer choice. We recently worked with developers to introduce a multiplex power play pilot and that's going to help contractors and developers electrify their multiplex housing without the need for complex service upgrades. So, this is a technology that we're watching really closely. These are things that change the game and we need to be making sure we understand those and we're implementing those wherever possible.

00:19:46 - 00:20:45

Lance Mortlock

Yeah. One of the things Jana, that I think is interesting that I've been following, I'm sure you've been looking at it as well, is just the scale of innovation in China around EVs. I mean, there I was reading an article briefly this morning on the way into the office that fast charging in China is currently setting global records where the 1,000 to 1,500 megawatts, 1000-volt megawatt systems capable of adding 400km of range in five minutes of charging.

I mean, it's just incredible the scale of innovation that they're doing in China, I think it's BYD and CATL and their technology uses advanced blade and Shenxing batteries, making charging as fast as fuelling a gas car. I mean, this space it's changing so quickly, isn't it?

00:20:46 - 00:21:40

Jana Mosley

Well, and that's why, when we look at our load forecast and even with some slower, residential growth right now, as, we're seeing some shifts around immigration and, where jobs are certainly in the country and where the economy is booming and where it's starting to pick up again and grow. We aren't seeing from a load forecast perspective still, that hockey stick happening.

And that's okay because we didn't expect it to happen yet, but it is still coming. Which is why you see those Ontario projections, right, of the 65% increase by 2050. Because once this technology is available, we will be going in that direction. And even the fear I think around our climate and EV charging, that technology is going to overtake that.

00:21:41 - 00:22:23

Lance Mortlock

Game-changing for sure. One of the things that you've also touched on is the speed of EV adoption. We, as you know, published this annual Consumer Mobility Index and the latest edition is now available for our listeners that want to read more and find out more about EY insights. But we found about 30% of Canadian buyers are now reconsidering their EV purchases.

And that's mainly due to the upfront costs, changes to government incentives. So my question is: how do you see these affordability pressures really influencing EV adoption going forward, especially as energy prices and technology continue to evolve?

00:22:24 - 00:25:23

Jana Mosley

Look, there's no doubt that ultimately policy will drive adoption more than customer demand. And we've seen that in jurisdictions like California. We've seen that in Québec, Canada and in BC and we've seen what happens when incentives pull off. Right. Adoption is just not there, right? Yeah. I think the end of previous incentives in 2024 led to a 29% decrease in new EV registrations in 2025.

Right. There's a strong correlation. Now new federal policy shifts are elevating, I think, the EV outlook along with the technology development that you mentioned. So we are seeing, the incentive reinstatement $5,000 incentive and  that amount is going to climb over a period. But  that's very positive for vehicles under 50 grand lower tariffs on Chinese vehicles. We've seen that reduced to 6.1% on the first 49,000 vehicles, so that's  we'll see what happens there. Lower cost of vehicle availability like you mentioned, that's going to keep coming down. I think in the luxury vehicle space, that's an interesting one. So those who are, wanting to be driving more of that $80,000+ vehicle. I think the cost on EV comparison is not even close yet, but certainly at the lower end you're really starting to see that competitiveness and then, , stricter GHG emissions standards. So, EV sales mandate, replaced with stricter GHG emissions for 2027 to 2032 models are really encouraging the OEMs to increase EV production.

So it's going to happen. Again, going back to our energy transition conversation, it’s transition how fast. And right now, Canadians in particular are thinking about, their wallet. They're thinking about grocery costs. They're thinking about paying their essential services. And, in our country, there's still, access to, somewhat affordable gas.

And so, I think it's the policies and the ability to help people transition financially will be what we'll see an increase in adoption in, or we'll have to wait longer for the technology to be there to make it truly, truly competitive. We also need to increase the size of charging networks, right. So I think there's still that fear, again, as people understand better how much you really need to charge.

I think that helps and as the technology evolves. But certainly, one of the stats I saw recently, Lance, is that current EV registrations are outpacing charger installations and we're lagging industry-recommended ratio of 1 to 10 charger to cars. I think we're at 1 to 13, it said. So  that's we need to continue to watch that. But we are seeing players pop up in this space. And the continued policy debate about, what should be centrally planned versus what do you leave to the market competitive market.

00:25:24 – 00:25:53

Lance Mortlock

Let's pivot and talk a little bit about data centres.

We're seeing strong interest in data centres across the country and other electricity-intensive developments across Ontario, in particular. In an urban system with infrastructure constraints, how does Toronto Hydro really evaluate and accommodate these large load requests, like data centres that, in some respects enable the economic growth that we really want in this country?

00:25:54 - 00:25:55

Jana Mosley

Yeah, this.

00:25:56 - 00:25:58

Lance Mortlock

Is a is it a bit of a headache for you, Jana, when you got like these big loads that come in.

00:25:59 - 00:29:52

Jana Mosley

So first of all, no, it is not a headache. We are in the business to support and encourage and, quite frankly, drive economic growth here in our city and in our province and in our country. So no, definitely not a headache. It really comes down to planning. In most cases, large loads have long lead times, and we keep encouraging customers, particularly data centres, come to us early, let us understand what your needs are. Let's not overstate what they are, either. Are you phasing this? And really build that into our long-term system and investment planning cycle. Traditional loads like manufacturing or housing certainly are easier to accommodate because those load profiles are generally well known and understood. Right. Data centres certainly are a unique challenge for a couple of reasons. Given AI and data centres are still emerging as technologies, we're seeing that sometimes customers think they need a lot more demand. They're going to have a lot more demand on the system than what they actually end up, what actually ends up materializing. And so the challenge is, how do you balance investing in the grid to ensure capacity is there when needed, but without what we're investing or burdening ratepayers. Now, depending on the jurisdiction and the investment model, in general, I would say there's a way to keep ratepayers safe, right? These customers certainly in Ontario jurisdiction. I mean, they need to pay to play. So, you're paying for your connection costs if you're driving system expansion costs. And we don't see that we're going to collect that, recover those costs from you as a new customer and ratepayer.

Then you're paying the difference of that upfront and you're securing, as well, the costs for anything that we're building on the system so that we can see that you certainly do connect and use the load. So, it's all in the design, I think and how you manage that but also not being prohibitive so that people aren't connecting at all.

And this is a big policy conversation happening in our province and across the country and across North America in particular right now. The interesting thing about the low profile of data centres, Lance, is that particularly around AI, they're more spiky, right, less predictable versus that traditional load. So, the grid really does need to be able to absorb those fluctuations.

Now it's different on transmission level connected versus distribution as well. But , I've been surprised as we've looked at this over the last year as an organization at how many data centres we actually do have already connected here in Toronto. And even though we don't have a large physical land footprint of available space, we have a lot of buildings, large, large centres that data centre developers are certainly interested in moving into.

And their access already to the grid is there. And so, it's more of an upgrade in terms of the service. So really companies like Toronto Hydro, we are one of the key factors that are either going to accelerate or hinder economic growth. Here at Toronto Hydro. We want to accelerate it. We want to enable it, my focus from day one as a CEO has been on being proactive and prudent with investments but making sure we're also working with our customers to ensure it's easy to do business with us.

They know we want them to come and connect here and that we're going to work with them to make sure that's a great experience. And quite frankly, they tell their business partners, they tell their investors. And one of the things that really excited me in coming to Toronto a few years ago was the alignment that I do see municipally, provincially and federally around making sure we're meeting this moment and doing what we all can do collectively to move Toronto and Canada forward.

00:29:53 - 00:30:33

Lance Mortlock

Pivoting again a little bit. We've talked a little bit about the energy transition and it's pushing utilities to invest beyond traditional poles and wires. So digital systems, grid modernization, demand response. And you mentioned earlier how Toronto Hydro prioritizes investments while staying disciplined on cost and affordability. All of that stuff is very important. How aligned would you say regulators are with that approach today, and in what ways are they enabling what you need to be successful as a company?

00:30:34 - 00:33:11

Jana Mosley

Yeah, I mean, this is different all over the world. And I know we've talked many times watching, what's happened in Europe and where they're leading, particularly in UK watching Australia, watching, down in New York, California, ERCOT [Electric Reliability Council of Texas]. Certainly, what we see right now is the pace of innovation and change is accelerating. And as you mentioned, utilities are investing far beyond only poles and wires and we need to be.

Regulatory frameworks, I would say, Lance, are continuing to evolve and trying to keep pace with how investments are shifting. But we really need to work with regulators to keep at it. The Ontario Energy Board, so the regulator of transmission distribution here in Ontario, they have a margin-on-payments program for example that treats non wire solutions, so your non-typical investment to meet a challenge on the system. They treat that more comparably to traditional capital investments. So, this is a really good example of how regulatory frameworks are starting to change in a way that encourages investments in non-wires alternatives, we call them, without compromising reliability, safety or affordability. So as these regulatory frameworks continue to modernize, it's really critical that we continue to get the clarity and certainty and appropriate flexibility from the regulator.

 This is relatively new. As utilities we're going to try to leverage this and where it makes sense to do that. And then we'll be looking for regulators to  also meet us there and continue to evolve this. So, that clarity and certainty certainly allows utilities to we have to plan ahead. You're working always ahead or else you won't be there in time. So, we have to invest and be able to scale new nontraditional investments confidently, and that's where, stability and consistency from the regulator certainly comes in. We also need to have some flexibility within reason, so that we can be more adaptable and innovative so that we can meet local needs.

So, I'm encouraged, I would say, by the conversations that were having recently. And I think it comes down to pace. And this is an industry that's not used to moving at pace. And we need to do that differently if we're going to be successful and meet this moment for sure.

00:33:12 - 00:33:42

Lance Mortlock

My last question before we kind of wrap up with concluding comments. Looking ahead, what lessons would you say you've learned from the Toronto Hydro experience so far that policymakers, industry leaders and investors should keep in mind in other cities across Canada as they confront electrification, growth pressures, all the things that we've talked about. What would be the biggest lesson learned?

00:33:43 - 00:35:45

Jana Mosley

Historically, we do a lot of talking and tend to play it too safe, and there's been good reason for that. And utilities still need to really be focused on mitigating risk. So there's risk aversion for sure, but we need to be able to take calculated risk as well and as an industry and within my own organization.

So, I think that is what Canadians and I think the markets and investors are concerned about. Can Canada move at pace? Will Canada execute, can industry and the overall ecosystem around the electricity industry actually execute? So, I think as CEOs, we have the privilege and the position to set the pace, to take calculated risk, to educate so that we're mitigating risk and opening up the opportunity that exists to do things differently.

And we have got to make the move. It is, in the electricity industry’s culture, our ways of working, the process of how we within our companies unleash people's ability to get things done and solve problems and reduce regulatory burden or process burden and be truly creative, that is going to be the difference maker. And we really need to be looking at how we do that and understanding technology.

We need to become a technology company. Technology is going to reshape our operations. But I think adoption is not happening at the speed or scale required to stay competitive, to drive lower costs for customers. And part of that is because of, certain things around accounting treatment, regulatory treatment and just a lack of understanding of what the benefits in the long run really are.

We have a real opportunity here in Canada to increase productivity in  ways of working.

00:35:46 - 00:35:49

Lance Mortlock

Anything else that you want to share before we wrap up?

00:35:50 - 00:37:33

Jana Mosley

Well, first thanks for the conversation. Really appreciate it. I think, what I would say is urban planning and electrical grids, are they’re incredibly complex. And urban utilities and all elements of the value chain in electricity need to make sure that we are bringing the right ambition to meet the execution need. And I really do believe urban utilities are where ambition meets execution.

We're managing rapid change. We're enabling new technologies and coordinating growth at local levels while keeping reliability top of mind and affordability non-negotiable. So, let's make sure that we're thinking across the whole value chain as policymakers around the cost of supply, because at the end of the day, the distributors are the ones that send that bill.

But let's also make sure we're investing properly at the distribution level so that we can truly unlock the potential and enable that customer choice and, really, value for money that I think all of our customers are expecting from us. And I do believe that, as the energy industry, we are going to crack that nut and you're going to see something very different from distribution companies in the future because we are going to be that distribution system operator of the future and help connect, that whole value chain to a whole different way of using the system and helping electrify here in Canada.

00:37:34 - 00:38:17

Lance Mortlock

Awesome. Well, I wanted to say a couple of things. One, I think you play, as the leader of Toronto Hydro, such an important role connecting one of our country's biggest urban centres. And I think Jana, as well, one of the things that strikes me about your story and this podcast is you're such an important voice and I would say an advocate of reliability, affordability, but also innovation that you touched on.

And, I've known you for many years and I think you just bring a level of energy and passion to problem-solving, which I really appreciate. So, thank you for joining the podcast. Real pleasure to talk to you.

00:38:18 - 00:38:20

Jana Mosley

Thanks a lot Lance, and take care of yourself.

00:38:21 - 00:39:46

Lance Mortlock

Just to wrap up for our listeners, we encourage you to reflect on today's discussion. Share your thoughts with us and you can reach out to EY via the attached contact details or join the conversation on social media. Finishing another great episode, I'd like to share maybe a few kind of final messages. One, the energy transition is ultimately local.

National policy sets direction, but electrification succeeds or fails at the distribution level, which Jana talked about. Urban utilities like Toronto Hydro are already managing rapid demand growth from multiple sources and translating ambition into execution. Secondly, customer choice requires, I think, thoughtful design. Customers are driving change and utilities must respond with flexibility and innovation. But expanding choice must go hand in hand with careful planning to protect reliability and affordability.

And finally, trust and collaboration, I think, enable progress. Public confidence in energy transition depends on transparent decision-making, disciplined investment and collaboration across utilities, regulators, governments and the private sector. So once again, thanks for listening in on our podcast and we'll see you on the next episode.