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How a strategic vision, technology and leadership can drive CFO success
In this episode of the Better Finance: CFO Insights podcast, Myles Corson interviews Michael Coombs, Executive in Residence, EY Strategy and Consulting Co., Ltd., about the essential qualities of successful CFOs.
Host Myles Corson and Michael Coombs, Executive in Residence, EY Strategy and Consulting Co., Ltd., based in Japan, explore the evolving role of CFOs and the importance of a data-first approach in driving value creation. Leveraging his extensive global professional background, Michael emphasizes the necessity for CFOs to focus on maintaining global competitiveness and supporting sustainable business models within their organizations.
Michael shares that in his view, the most effective CFOs are those who are discontented and seek to innovate, seeing their roles as opportunities to elevate the organization and embrace transformation. However, to truly drive change, CFOs should also possess strong communication skills and an ability to simplify complex data-driven insights into compelling narratives that resonate with diverse audiences.
Ultimately, Michael encourages aspiring CFOs to focus on actionable insights derived from clean data, highlighting that success can come from prioritizing initiatives that focus on long-term value creation.
Key takeaways:
Make sure your organization has high-quality data as a foundation for effective decision-making.
Leverage pioneering technology, such as artificial intelligence (AI), to optimize routine data management and focus on value-add activities.
Develop communication skills that can effectively convey complex data-driven insights to wider audiences.
Engage actively in your organization to create a culture of transformation.
For your convenience, full text transcript of this podcast is also available.
Michael Coombs
I think the most successful CFOs are those that are discontented, those that are not simply satisfied with continuing the status quo or maintaining the role that they take on, but those that see themselves as the next iteration of that role and therefore want to take the role to a new level.
Myles Corson
That was Michael Coombs, Executive in Residence for EY Strategy and Consulting Co., Ltd. I’m Myles Corson from EY, host of The EY Better Finance podcast. In this series we explore the changing dynamics of the business world and what it means for finance leaders of today and tomorrow, by sharing insights from global leaders on key topics affecting the world of corporate finance. In this episode, Michael shares insights from his extensive career in finance, with more than 30 years in the industry and 15 years as a CFO. Together, we’re going to explore the evolving role of the CFO, the impact of technology and AI on finance, and the critical importance of both data quality and communication within the C-Suite. So, let’s begin. Michael, welcome to the EY Better Finance Podcast.
Coombs
Thanks Myles. Thanks for having me, and I look forward to sharing some thoughts and insights.
Corson
Well, you’ve had a long and a very successful career as an executive across a lot of countries and across a lot of cultures. Perhaps you could start off by giving us a little bit of background on your career path and how you got to where you are?
Coombs
Happy to do that. I was fortunate enough to start working at a relatively young age. I did a year of full-time university and then decided the sequential order of doing things wasn’t for me, and I thought I’d study and work at the same time. So, I continued my undergraduate studies and got myself a job at Coca-Cola in South Africa as a financial analyst. That worked out pretty well, because what I was doing at work during the day ended up being what I was studying in the evening. So, a pretty unique way of getting my undergraduate degree mostly in accounting and business, while at the same time getting great context to what I was studying at the workplace.
Corson
Fantastic. You’ve had this very broad global experience. Are there particular things that shape to your view on finance and leadership?
Coombs
As I’ve worked around the globe in a number of different cultures and countries, I spent six years with the Coca-Cola system in South Africa, followed by two years in London, six years in France, seven years in Turkey, and then 11 or 12 years in Japan, and then back to Turkey. So, during the course of being exposed to various different cultures, I realized, and it may seem obvious to many people, but the conversations that were taking place around the table were very, very similar regardless of the geography, which is always good because it tells you you’re either all on the right track or all on the wrong track. But in this case, I think we all had a common agenda that we were pursuing regardless of the physical location we found ourselves in.
Corson
Reflecting back on your long career, were there any particular pivotal moments that you look back on and say that was defining in terms of your career trajectory?
Coombs
I was lucky enough very early in my career to have the opportunity to get involved in, for want of a better word I would call, the computerization of manual accounting. From the very first day we got the first IBM PC and unboxed it, I had this huge curiosity and enthusiasm for the technology side of the business, coupled with the finance or accounting side. So, I was very lucky to develop a big appetite for that very early on in my career. So, I always, wherever possible, got very involved in IT [information technology] and the whole IT side as well as the finance side.
So, that appetite I had for taking on not only finance, but also IT stood me in good stead for bigger roles later on and I always asked, whenever I took a senior finance role, I always asked whether I could take IT as well and later, when I was in public companies, I asked for investor relations, just because I see them as so adjacent and so interconnected.
So, that, to me, was a pivotal desire I had pretty early in my career. Other pivotal moments would perhaps be the various career opportunities I had, which took me down entirely new paths and as an example, when I was working in France as the controller for the bottling business, I was offered the opportunity to work in North America, and I was also offered the opportunity to work in Turkey, in Istanbul and I chose Istanbul, and I think had I chosen North America, I would probably have ended up in a very, very different place. So, the decisions you make early in your career can take you down a completely different path and I guess that is why it’s so important that you make the right decisions early in your career.
Corson
Yeah, and just on that decision-making point, one of the things we’ve spoken about in the past is this idea of having a vision for where your career is going and so you can make informed decisions about things that fit and help you to achieve that longer-term goal of where you are moving towards. You may talk a little bit about that?
Coombs
As I’ve listened to your podcasts, many of your guests have spoken about outcomes and being aligned on outcomes or having clarity on what outcome should be. I think, personally, it’s very important to have a clear image of where you, as an individual, would like to land one day. I was always pretty clear on what I wanted for myself, and when you have that clarity, what you can do is, when things come along that fit with that picture, you can slot them in, and ultimately, you’re building your own picture with pieces that fit. Without a picture — that’s never going to happen. So, that picture was the clarity I always had, and consequently, I was able to make the right career decisions based on identifying and not choosing certain opportunities that came my way.
Corson
Fantastic. Again, you give some great examples about being very proactive in terms of scoping the role that you had as a CFO [chief financial officer] and the responsibilities you had with some of the functions that reported into you, which I think is probably in advance of some of what we’ve seen elsewhere. As you sort of reflect, based on your experience about what are some of the things that make successful CFOs successful? What are some of the differentiators you’ve seen as you’ve been through your career?
Coombs
I think the most successful CFOs are those that are discontented, those that are not simply satisfied with continuing the status quo or maintaining the role that they take on, but those that see themselves as the next iteration of that role; and therefore, want to take the role to a new level. And, given the pace at which things are happening now in the whole technology space, the opportunities to do that are greater than ever.
So, I’ve always been a big believer in legacy leadership, doing a role to the point where people start recognizing that you have taken things to a new level and that you’ll be remembered for that. So, it doesn’t always work, or you can have a bad legacy as opposed to a good legacy; it doesn’t always work that way for everyone all the time. But I think the goal should be that you took not only the finance function but the business itself to a whole new level and that, to me, would be a key indicator of a successful CFO.
Also, having an appetite — this is very much aligned with what I’ve just said—having an appetite for transformation and seeing yourself as CFO as being uniquely positioned to be the catalyst for transformation in the organization. CFOs have a license to get involved in everything. Unlike the person heading up HR [human resources] or the person heading up marketing or commercial, CFOs can pretty much open every door and ask every question.
So, they should use that, they should use that as an opportunity to drive transformation across the business. But of course, and we’ve spoken about this before, they need to be empowered to do that. If you are kept in a box and not allowed to do that as a CFO, you either need to break that box open, or you need to find yourself another organization where you are not boxed in.
Corson
I love your point about restlessness — or we’ll talk about curiosity — one that’s being a key attribute, so that’s great, and one of the things we’ve talked about is the importance of communication. I know that you’re a firm believer in the power of storytelling and we talked about using stories to sell and to get people to buy into ideas, but can you talk about, again, the importance of communication and how it’s played a role in your career?
Coombs
The good CFOs, the role models I’ve been lucky enough to have in my career, the great bosses I’ve worked for, whether they’ve been global CFOs or even CEOs that I’ve had a reporting line into, have always been good communicators, in general. They’ve always, especially the CFOs, have always been very adept at taking complexity and reducing it into understandable chunks. I think every CFO needs to be able to do that. They need a talent for communicating complexity across functions and to a wider audience.
When the earnings come out, if you’re standing in front of a group of people from across the organization, are you able to take those numbers and narrate them and tell their story? We’ve spoken separately about the importance of not just telling a story but also selling a story. Telling is a skill, but selling is at a different level, and being able to take a story and make it interesting enough for the audience to buy what it is that you are selling is another skill I believe every good CFO needs to develop.
Corson
Yeah, and again, it’s part of that influencing role, particularly in the C-suite and boardroom, that is so important. So, moving on. Well, let’s talk about value creation, which is such an important part of the CFO’s role now. We’ve talked on the podcast a lot about this shift from value protection, value optimization into value creation and how would you define that? How do you define value creation above finance and what can finance leaders do to really contribute to that value creation agenda?
Coombs
I have a different take on value creation to most CFOs. Perhaps this is because of my background and some of the work I’m doing in Japan right now, but I believe that the ultimate value of a company depends on its ability to be globally competitive. Are you truly seen as a global competitor by your competitors? Do they take you seriously? Are you on the global stage? So, I think the ultimate value delivery is to ensure that your company is globally competitive and that ultimately, you have a sustainable business model.
You’re not dipping into the field now and then but sitting on the sidelines; you’re actually one of the main players and the reason you are taken seriously as you play on the global field is because you’re pretty much the best at everything you do. So, I think, a CFO can ensure that you are globally competitive and that your business model itself is sustainable by ensuring that — and we’ll get to this — by ensuring that you are not only delivering insights, but actually acting on timely insights to drive your competitive advantage in the marketplace. If you are not operating at that level and you’re down stuck in dirty data — which I know we’ll get to—you are probably not on the global field anyway, or if you are, you’re living on borrowed time, I believe.
Corson
It’s such a great point. I think it gets to this point about really understanding what are the drivers of value creation and how finance can help influence those and we had a conversation with Rory Sutherland on one of the other podcasts, talking about actually the fact that the shareholder value movement in some ways can be harmful because actually focusing on the very narrow drivers and the very direct drivers of shareholder value, things like cost reductions drive EPS [earnings per share] or shareholder buybacks, actually, it doesn’t address those longer-term issues. So, how does finance really focus on things, to your point, that drive competitive advantage, that drive understanding of customer behavior, that actually enables growth is going to be such an important role for finance leaders.
Coombs
Absolutely. I mentioned sustainability and you know we all tend to think about these various sustainability indices and the environmental side of it. But, ultimately, the question to ask is, is your business model itself sustainable? Or are you actually going to be marginalized and eventually removed by a more capable competitor?
Corson
Yeah.
Coombs
And is that more capable competitor going to be better because of how they use data and how they transform that data into insights that they act on before their competitors do.
Corson
Yeah. I want to get into that conversation around the data, but let’s start it in the context of technology. We’re all experiencing, as you mentioned, kind of rapid evolution of technology. You’ve seen technologies come and go over the course of your very long and successful career. As you think about the impacts of technology, how do you see the role of the CFO evolving in the next five years as a result?
Coombs
This is very connected to the point I made earlier about having jurisdiction over the IT function and being able to drive the system landscape and agenda, and the data standardization and governance of the organization as the CFO. The reason I say this really is that the future is—and I apologize if this is repetitive—but the future is going to be in the hands of those that use insights the best. If, as a CFO, you simply take what you are given in terms of systems and data and try to make the best of that, your hands are going to be somewhat tied.
What you need is to be able to drive that agenda by saying, I need the latest iteration of an ERP [enterprise resource planning] system, I need the latest iteration. I need the very best functionality. I need perfect data, or at least great data, because we all know that perfect is the enemy of great. I need my data to be clean. I need my system landscape to be uncluttered. I need my systems to be integrated and streamlined, and then I will show you what I am capable of as a CFO.
So, I think as technology evolves, that’s a constantly moving target. And of course, companies can’t afford to invest in a new ERP system every year, but it is important for a CFO to stay abreast of exactly what the latest iterations are offering and make the case for when it’s necessary to overhaul the system landscape.
Corson
Are there particular technologies, again, looking across the landscape right now, you think are particularly interesting for finance and ones you’d be encouraging finance leaders to think about?
Coombs
I think, like everyone, I’m very excited about AI [artificial intelligence], more excited than afraid of what AI has in store for all of us. I think that it potentially offers a way to get around this low appetite for fixing data because I have to believe that AI is going to take some of the pain out of going through all of that data, field by field, and fixing it.
I have to believe that AI is going to make that process a lot less painful. So, that part excites me, but I’ve also, as you know, I’m semi-retired now, but I love to dabble in some of this new technology, some of the AI, not just for personal purposes, but to figure out how I can summarize things and pull out keywords and key messages and put everything into PowerPoint presentations and play around, and I’m completely in awe of how quickly that can now be done.
So, all I need to do is extrapolate that impact in my mind to know that it’s going to have a huge impact on finance, the biggest impact of which would be to free up the finance team’s time to really focus on more value-added activities and not be caught up in the reconciliations and routine work that finance has traditionally been responsible for.
Corson
That’s great. Well, very inspiring, I think, yeah, we all hopefully can realize some of that vision and opportunity. Just coming back to the data point, because I know you’ve said to me in the past, high-quality data is non-negotiable, but that’s just the foundation and again, there’s kind of a pyramid of what you actually do with that data. Maybe just talk about again your views on that foundation of data and how it can be used most effectively.
Coombs
As I think you will appreciate, Myles, when data becomes part of a conversation, it’s amazing how many people start looking for the door and wanting to talk about something more exciting. But the reality is, I feel so strongly about this, that data is the lifeblood of a well-run organization. If the data is clean, if the blood is clean, the body functions well. Or another analogy, it’s the gasoline of the organization’s engine, and if the gasoline is dirty, the journey isn’t as good as it could be. So, I feel it’s critically important, and it should be non-negotiable.
This idea that you can kick the data can down the road and fix it one day just doesn’t fly anymore and given what we spoke about for AI, AI ultimately is only going to be as good as what gets fed into it, and if you’re feeding dirt into it, you’re not going to get the results you hope for. So, there’s, generally speaking, a low appetite across organizations for fixing data, so we hope AI will help to address some of that. But I think that the story of why data is so important hasn’t been told well enough.
We spoke earlier about sustainability, and I know a lot of companies, especially public companies, talk about I am on this sustainability index, and I have won this award. I think there should be a data readiness index that these companies should be held accountable for or should be measured against, and they should be rewarded or called out if they don’t meet certain standards and that would include data protection, of course, which is another important area. I used to have some fun with data when I was doing investor roadshows.
I’d go along and investors would say at the end of a presentation, is there anything we haven’t asked you? I’d say, ask us how we use data. And they would ask the question a little sheepishly sometimes, and I would say, well, not very well, but we have huge opportunities to be better and this is what we’re doing to fix that. And their eyes would light up. So, behind that reluctance to talk about data, there is a huge conversation about the opportunities that await all of us if we get the data piece right.
Corson
You touched there on some of the reluctance to tackle the data quality challenge, and I think for many organizations, they’ve been through this journey of trying to create data lakes, and it’s a big nuggety problem to try to solve. You’ve also mentioned the opportunity with AI. How would you encourage companies to take more of an iterative approach? Because I think the risk is that if you don’t do anything, you could still get stuck in this paralysis mode because it’s such a big problem. But actually, you’ve got to start somewhere, you’ve got to build momentum, and you’ve got to build the confidence in the organization that you can drive success.
Coombs
The CFO has a huge role to play in selling the importance of data into the organization and selling the opportunity in terms of what clean data could potentially deliver to the organization in the future. So, I hold CFOs responsible for doing that. I believe it’s part of their brief. I think that if a CEO gets that and mandates the various functions within the organization to get their data clean, and we use the right amount of technology to do some of the more laborious side of the cleaning up, you and I have spoken about this pyramid where data sits at the bottom, and I think of data as being the foundation of a strong organization, and if you build foundation with bad materials, it’s never going to be strong, and the organization doesn’t stand a chance. So, if you can sell in that notion of data, whether it’s the lifeblood, whether it’s the gasoline, whether it’s the foundation, it’s actually all of those.
If you can sell that, if you can test your selling skills at articulating how important that is and get the other functions to rally around it and get your CEO to embrace it and then mandate it to the organization. These were never even conversations we had at Coca-Cola. It was quite simply mandated from the very, very beginning. So, conversations about the importance of data never took place. It wasn’t a given. It was universally understood. So, I would say today, if you’re a CFO and your data is bad, rally everyone around, sell the story and quietly go away and get it done. You’re not going to get points with investors for fixing your data, because guess what, they think it’s good.
They actually think you’ve done it already. So, quietly go away and fix it. Because, on that pyramid we’ve discussed, there’s data at the bottom, on top of data you have this collection of data called information, and on the top of the pyramid you have selected information that’s linked together to form insights, and at the very top, if there’s such a thing, you have the absolute pinnacle, which is actionable, timely insight. And if you can be having a discussion with your leadership, with your shareholders about the insights you’ve been able to gather from your clean data and your streamlined systems, they will reward you and you truly will have created value as a CFO.
Corson
One of the things that we talk about, particularly in the AI world, is the democratization of data and for finance, I could see that as being a double-edged sword because people are able to access data, use natural language prompts — what is the role of finance in the world other than providing the data? I think it comes back to your point about actionable insight, this role of finance in really helping to filter and define what data you take and actually bring that business acumen to define what is actionable.
I think it’s going to be even more important in this world where data is potentially much more accessible and available, so how do you see that trade-off between finance providing a more curated access to the data based on an understanding and an insight versus just sort of opening it up to anybody to use this data?
Coombs
This is part of a bigger conversation that I often have, which is the freedom versus framework conversation. I always think of finance and the CFO as being the framework, and there needs to be the appropriate amount of freedom within that framework. I think finance needs to set the framework, needs to set the boundaries, without being too dictatorial, but at the same time making sure that everyone understands what the outer edges are but feels empowered enough to operate and deliver results within that framework.
So, it’s a discussion that comes back to a bigger discussion as well around something I call internal governance, and I see CFOs as being the champions of internal governance, which includes how much different people are empowered to do different things within the organization. When I was with the Coca-Cola system for all those years, we had a very powerful document called a Chart of Authority, and it was absolutely clear as to who had authority to do what across the organization, and we had versions of it in all of our different operations.
I would say when it comes to data, once again, you could have a whole chapter in your Chart of Authority as to who gets to play with data, who gets to read, and who gets to write, is another way of putting it. People can access data, but they cannot necessarily manipulate the data, or people can go in and edit data, and how you do that and your whole data governance strategy is critically important, and the CFO, in my opinion, should be driving much, if not all, of that.
Corson
I think that’s a great analogy, that framework and freedom, the combination, and that you add to that, CFOs setting guardrails and the ability to move fast and have the freedom within those guardrails is such a powerful role and it means, again, you allow people the empowerment, that you allow them to work within parameters and focus on what matters, so I think that’s clear.
Coombs
And I think the key there is not to be known as the framework person, the person that puts the brakes on everything. You need to be the person that empowers people in a way that they can be successful and know what they need authority to do and what they can simply decide themselves. So, the old notion of CFOs was always that they were obstacles to getting things done quickly and that they put the brakes on spending. That’s definitely not something we want to go back to, but it’s really about empowering the organization to act quickly while understanding what the limitations are of what they can decide.
Corson
Yeah, and then to go back to your own analogy, equipping them with the right data and the guidance of what part of that data is what matters.
Coombs
Absolutely. I think that the best CFOs, the most effective CFOs are adequately empowered by their organization, by the CEO, by their headquarters, and equally well-equipped to achieve success.
Corson
Fantastic. As we wrap up, Michael, you’ve shared some great insights, but is there any advice you’d give to aspiring CEOs or CFOs earlier in their journey who want to become more successful to help them be successful in their role?
Coombs
As I thought about this and spoken to groups of people over the years, I think it actually comes down to something very simple, which is don’t be too busy to be better, and we’ve also previously spoken about the hundreds, if not thousands of things that compete for a leader’s attention. Well, in the case of a CFO, I’m a little biased, but in the case of a CFO, there are just so many things competing for your time from the moment you wake up in the morning and the key is, being busy is not enough. It’s being busy with the right things and having the time to step back and be better, drop things off as you add new things and work smartly and use all the technology that’s on offer today.
Corson
That’s great. Well, we appreciate those final thoughts. That’s, I think, really inspiring and relevant. As we wrap up, Michael, we like to find out more about you in terms of an all-time favorite quote. Is there something that has meant something to you as you’ve been through your career?
Coombs
There’s an old Irish proverb that I’ve always related to, which says, “you can’t plow a field by turning it over in your mind.” I love the idea that you actually need to roll up your sleeves and take on the detail. In this case, my passion, which is data—fixing the data. It’s not going to happen by describing what needs to be done, it’s not going to happen by telling investors that you’re going to do it, it’s simply going to happen when you do it. So, get involved, set an example to your organization and plow that field. Get into the field and plow it.
Corson
Very good. I like that. And then, was there a particular piece of advice or mentoring that you got during your career that was particularly impactful?
Coombs
I think a lot of people would argue as to when I took this on board, but I was told many, many years ago that I should talk less and listen more and I believe I took that on board. Certainly, when I came to Japan, especially, this is a society that rewards silence more than it rewards volume. So, I did take that on board many, many years ago and I have tried to listen more than I did before. I still find myself leaving meetings thinking that I spoke too much, but it’s, we never stop improving, and I’m continuing to work on that.
Corson
Great. Well, I think most of the audience will agree with what you say. It’s definitely worth listening to you, so–well thank you, appreciate that. And then, obviously, you’re at this point in your career where you’re semi-retired, as you mentioned, so hopefully, you have pretty good balance and doing a lot of things that you enjoy doing now, but as you look back on your career, where there things that you did to achieve the right balance and did prioritize the personal as well as the professional side?
Coombs
Work-life balance, I guess like most people, it’s always been a big objective of mine, an objective I haven’t always managed to achieve. But now I have no excuse. So, I still wake up in the morning with a thousand things competing for my time, but I get to choose what those things are now more than I could before. I do a lot of exercise, do a lot of walking. I play tennis, I play golf. You can never play enough golf to get your handicap where you want it to be. I do new things now, like gardening. I read a lot more than I used to. I’m able to stay up-to-date on all the news. I’m able to dabble around in things like AI. So yes, I’m as busy as I ever was, but I’m doing a whole lot of new things, and I think I have a pretty good balance now.
Corson
Fantastic. Well, again, it’s been great talking to you, and I love the way you’ve maintained that curiosity and sort of restlessness over the course of your long career. So, thank you for sharing those insights with us.
Coombs
Thanks, Myles. It’s been a pleasure.
Corson
If you’ve enjoyed this or any episode of The EY Better Finance podcast, please leave a rating or review and don’t forget to subscribe so you get future episodes. You’ll find related links in the show notes or at ey.com/betterfinance. As always, thank you for listening and if you have ideas or topics you would like to see covered or guests you’d like to see featured, please don’t hesitate to reach out. I look forward to speaking to you next time on The EY Better Finance podcast.
