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How and why CEOs should put sustainability at the core of business
In this special episode of the Sustainability Matters podcast, hear from Helena Helmersson, ex-CEO, H&M Group, and environmentalist Jonathon Porritt, about how CEOs can inspire action across the business.
This special episode of the EY Sustainability Matters podcast is introduced by Nadia Woodhouse from the EY New Economy Unit (NEU), which focuses on the long-term, systemic shifts toward a new, regenerative economy.
Nadia presents a thought-provoking dialogue with two influential leaders in sustainability: Helena Helmersson, former CEO of the fashion giant H&M Group, and Jonathon Porritt, a writer, environmentalist, advocate for sustainable development and a member of the advisory council for the NEU. The discussion centers around the pressing need for businesses to adopt regenerative practices in the face of escalating sustainability challenges and the crucial role of CEOs in driving that change.
The conversation delves into critical themes, such as the tension between profitability and sustainability, the importance of structural changes within large organizations, and the importance of forming deep, cross-industry coalitions. Both guests emphasize the need for greater inclusion of sustainability professionals in decision-making roles, the need for appropriate regulation, and urge CEOs to view sustainability not just as a responsibility, but as a core business imperative that drives innovation and competitiveness.
CEOs’ commitment to sustainability can drive significant organizational change and inspire collective action at all levels of the business.
Immediate and decisive actions are essential for companies to transition toward sustainable practices and mitigate the drastic impacts of climate change.
Companies should align their economic objectives with sustainability commitments to foster innovation and resilience in an increasingly resource-constrained world.
For your convenience, full text transcript of this podcast is also available.
Disclaimer:
This podcast contains information in summary form and is therefore intended for general guidance only. It is not intended to be a substitute for detailed research or the exercise of professional judgment. Member firms of the global EY organization cannot accept responsibility for loss to any person relying on this podcast. The views of third parties set out in this podcast are not necessarily the views of the global EY organization or its member firms. Moreover, they should be seen in the context of the time they were made.
Bruno Sarda
Hello and welcome to the EY Sustainability Matters podcast, our regular look at ESG and sustainability topics, and how they impact businesses around the globe. I'm Bruno Sarda, EY America's Climate Change and Sustainability Services Leader and your host for this series. This episode is presented by the EY New Economy Research Unit, led by Nadia Woodhouse. I am pleased to hand it over to her.
Nadia Woodhouse
Hi, I'm Nadia and welcome to this special episode from EY New Economy Unit. What is the New Economy Unit? It's a research team within EY Global Climate Change and Sustainability Services practice. We focus on the long-term systemic shifts needed to get to a new and regenerative economy. We, like many others, define a new economy as one that has planetary and human flourishing as it's inextricably linked goals. We believe that transitioning to this new economy is possible if we act swiftly and decisively.
And yet, we find ourselves in a very difficult inflection point amid evidence that we are continuing to breach planetary boundaries and come dangerously close to irreversible tipping points when it comes to climate, to nature, to society and even the economy. So, the actions of business are essential to realize a regenerative future. And so, we need bold leadership from business, and we need it now.
In this episode, the New Economy Unit is joined by two of those bold leaders in conversation. Helena Helmersson, previously the chief sustainability officer, turned CEO of H&M Group. Helena led H&M Group with a strong vision for transforming the fashion industry. She left that role in 2024 and is now a board member at a number of organizations, including innovative circular economy company Circulose, human rights educational platform Quizzr, and athletic shoe company On.
Helena is joined by a member of our New Economy Unit's advisory council, Jonathon Porritt. Jonathon is a renowned advocate for sustainable development, advising leading global corporations and governments for over three decades. He cofounded Forum for the Future and has held influential roles, such as co-chair of the Green Party, director of Friends of the Earth, and chair of the UK Sustainable Development Commission. He's now much more actively involved in green politics and climate campaigning.
So, welcome, Helena and Jonathon, and over to you.
Helena Helmersson
Thank you.
Jonathon Porritt
Thanks Nadia and Helena, lovely to have an opportunity to join you in a dialogue at this moment. I've followed your career with great interest.
Helmersson
That's wonderful to hear. Thank you so much, Jonathon, for having me here.
Porritt
I think you were recently at the World Retail Congress, Helena. And I'm sure there was lots of interested discussion about the state of sustainability and how things look now in such a disrupted world, and in particular about the role of the consumer and the degree to which we can look to consumers now to help get us back into a better place on sustainability. Did all that stuff come up?
Helmersson
Yeah, I would say that, overall, there was not so much talk about sustainability. There were only a few sessions. The big topic was about the unpredictability that companies have to deal with when it comes to, of course, trade war and tariffs, but also cybersecurity and these type of things that are kind of very disruptive and where companies need to be very fast and flexible to adapt.
Sustainability, I find that it's not being seen as the core of the business. And I think that, in general, there is a kind of a confusion around the topic because you see certain leaders in the world where all of a sudden this is not as important. So, I think we're kind of in a phase where there is a bit of confusion in how do I take this forward, because clearly, the intent is still there by many CEOs and business leaders, but there is a confusion in how to prioritize it and how to create impact from it.
Porritt
It is quite an interesting contrast, isn't it, to compare that, which is a bit confused, a bit diffused, uncertainty about what corporate leadership looks in this space today, rather than what it used to look before. And comparing that with where we are at the moment, with where we used to be, where sustainability to a certain extent was almost written into the core business of companies as something that absolutely had to get right. We had a lot of stuff about purpose. And thinking of your role, formerly, Helena, obviously at H&M Group, in the fast fashion world, in particular, the fashion industry has come under much greater pressure at various moments in the past than it seems to be under at the moment.
Helmersson
Yeah, I think it's because of this general confusion that is happening right now. I don't think the world has recovered since the pandemic. There's been so many things that has affected businesses, but the fact is that resources are scarce, you will have to deal with that. As resources get more and more scarce, prices will go up and those that have invested in circularity and developing the business model, so that you make sure that how you produce your products that is from circular materials that it's based on processes that has renewable energy.
If you have developed your business model toward circularity, you will, for sure, have a competitive advantage. I am surprised that it's not seen with more urgency because climate change is kind of here and now. It's right in front of us. It's happening every year. There's a big incident with fires or flooding.
We even experienced a pandemic, and still, we don't see circularity and climate as kind of part of our core. So, clearly, we need to see a big shift, including regulations, so that we're getting there. And when we do, those companies that have invested in circularity, they will definitely have a competitive edge.
Porritt
I look forward to that day, I must say, because I think it is absolutely right to go back to the core principles here of creating wealth in genuinely sustainable ways. And everybody knows that the fast fashion industry is inherently unsustainable and seemingly still unprepared for a world that is going to look very different. So, I'm with you completely, Helena, on the need for stressing those core principles, circularity, greater efficiency — more responsibility in the supply chain. That has to be put out there with all the other things. Yeah, lots of people looking forward to that day, that's for sure.
Helmersson
Yeah, the thing is that there are solutions, There are solutions out there within circularity. I'm on the other side now working with circular materials and Circulose. There are solutions if companies just would create these type of deep partnerships and have the ability to come together and actually create that type of impact. A few are taking this seriously, and those are the ones that, I believe, will be the winners long-term.
Porritt
Yes, the world of competitive sustainability, where those who are better at sustainability win out against those that are worse at sustainability. That's the world we all look forward to.
Helena, you've said yourself that when you were CEO at H&M Group that still wasn't easy despite all the things that H&M had done in the previous decade around sustainability. You still found that as CEO quite difficult to land with consumers, particularly the circular fashion bit, overcoming some of the massive environmental problems caused by fast fashion, social issues caused by the fashion industry around the world. When you were there in the hot seat at H&M, you said this wasn't easy. Sometimes, the conflict between business and sustainability was very, very difficult to deal with.
Helmersson
Yeah, no, I mean, I had sustainability as a background. I was working for owners and a board that was really engaged in sustainability. So, I do think I was lucky and the intentions, the passion, the engagement internally was amazing. One thing that can come to me now when being on the outside, you know, sometimes when you get a distance, you kind of see things clearer.
And I think what I found was difficult was seeing the conflict in the organization between sustainability and profitability, because it's there, at least in the short-term. And I think I didn't reflect as much to create a system where the organization wouldn't see this conflict.
Like that would more be decisions that we would take from the top around, for example, circular materials that a buyer wouldn't see kind of the cost difference because then obviously it's really hard to a sustainability target for a buyer. That means that you have to weigh between sustainability and profitability.
And I think, as a CEO, you can actually design a system that makes the organization, you know, not have to take responsibility for those kinds of conflicts. So, you kind of create a system that might be complex for the few, but simple for the many, if that makes sense.
Porritt
Yeah, yes, I can really sympathize with that. I mean, Forum for the Future, the organization I spent a long time with, having cofounded that in 1996, a lot of our partners would acknowledge the same phenomenon. It still required a lot of leadership at the top level to determine what the next step should be in the plan of action over a five-year, 10-year period.
But very often, there wasn't enough work done to make that an effective route to success for employees, whether it was in procurement, as you mentioned, which is a really, really important part of it with the buyers, whether it was actually in country relationships, where they're having to deal with so many different stakeholders.
A lot of our partners in Forum for the Future would see things kind of sorted at the top, but then inadequately landed in the company itself to make it possible for those on the front line to reconcile those sustainability and business priorities. And honestly, that was pretty frustrating for all those on the front line, who felt they weren't actually being empowered to do what the company wanted them to do. And it made for a lot of tension that perhaps shouldn't have been there. And I suspect that's still going on. It must be going on in company after company.
Helmersson
Yeah. and that's really what I mean that, as top management for a big corporation, I think you need to take the responsibility to make it easier for teams in the organization to reach those targets. But also, since I come from a long, long journey within a company that is a true sustainability leader, I am so proud about so many things that we've been doing.
But to create an impact, you need to also collaborate with the industry. And sometimes, I think that those collaborations and partnerships are not deep enough. You kind of try to tick all the boxes in your value chain, where you see a lot of risks, and you want to feel that, OK, then that is taken care of. We have a project around this and that instead of step-by-step going deep in partnerships and actually changing things.
Porritt
Mmm.
Helmersson
I have one example, when the H&M Group started with garment collecting, which was, I mean, we were definitely the first rolling that out in every store. That was an amazing initiative to help customers to clean out their wardrobes and do it in a way so that they knew that this is taken care of.
But without the right kind of recycling infrastructure in societies, without the right technologies, you don't reach the end goal of kind of really making sure that all garments become new. And we tried so much to influence other players in that value chain, but we ended up, you know, kind of taking control of it ourselves through joint ventures, with recycling companies and really integrating circular materials, such as Circulose, in our products to really, really go deep. That's what I mean with going deep — you know, really taking control together with partners to make the change and step-by-step move the system instead of just scratching on the surface and go too wide.
Porritt
I think there's a really important element you've put into the conversation there, because there is an implication that all we have to do is to bring together these coalitions of the willing among key players in any sector. And they will all then combine constructively and purposefully to change that bit of the system, that bit of the economy, if you like.
Now, there's a lot of overexcited rhetoric about coalitions of the willing. The truth is there are many, many companies in most sectors who are not willing. They're extremely unwilling. And they go to great lengths to avoid being recruited into a coalition of the willing, because they know it's going to be hard for them. And they won't any longer be able to get away with their, if I can put it in my campaigners’ terms, wretched underperformance.
So, I've always been supportive of coalitions of the willing, but boy, are they difficult to make work, if you haven't got governments backing up that kind of corporate willingness with proper regulatory interventions in that market. The two things just often seem to be out of step. Business leaders, the ones who really making a difference, talk about it a lot, do the hard graft to get the coalitions together. But most of those in the sector who don't want to join, don't join, because they know there's no regulatory, legislative backup to make them join. You can see why it falls short in so many different sectors when they're trying to get that change.
Helmersson
Yeah. And I can so much relate to it. I mean, it was a bit more than a year ago, I was a CEO myself with a great passion for sustainability. So, even though you have the best intentions, it's really, really hard to do that. And I still think that it's linked to the fact that it's not seen as the core.
Porritt
Mmm.
Helmersson
Because now if it's seen as a different level — something that you do on the side, because most business leaders are super impatient.
So, if it's not the core, going deep takes a lot of effort, a lot of time, it takes resources, it takes a lot of energy to come together and truly go deep.
Because coming together with others, if you don't think sustainability is the core, it will always be something that you can de-prioritize. So, you need regulations to kind of set straight what are the boundaries that you should operate within, and then it will be seen as the core and have the right kind of urgency to move the needle and to really go deep.
Helmersson
There are companies out there that have found solutions. It's just that you need to find the right strategic partners to be able to go deep, but I think it's connected to the fact that most business leaders don't see sustainability as the core.
Porritt
Yeah, so why is that? And I mean, when we were chatting before, Helena, I think your role from chief sustainability officer (CSO) to chief executive officer (CEO), it's almost unique. Well, I mean, there are very, very few examples out there where the CSO has ended up in charge of the entire company. And so, that puts you in a remarkable position, because not many people have done that. And when you ask me why is sustainability not at the core, I want to put that back to you.
Is it because the C-suites of most companies are still very male, are still very dominated by old-world perspectives on many of these issues, still have management tendencies, which often act against a more empathetic approach both within a company and in dealing with stakeholders? And yet, the sustainability community, the leadership of the sustainability community is predominantly women.
If you look around the world with the core of CSOs that we've got, chief sustainability officers that we've got, I would say the driving force there are women leaders more than men. So, we've got a male bias in the C-suite, and we've got a different kind of bias in the world of sustainability. Is this why sustainability isn't at the core of things? Sorry to bring us back to the likely role of patriarchy in our midst, but isn't that still part of the story?
Helmersson
I think there're many parts affecting this. I would say to me the biggest reason that I was kind of alone having that background is that sustainability is not seen as a business role. And usually, you want a CEO to have experience from the business.
I mean, I did five years of sustainability, and other than that, I was a business leader. So, I had various kinds of roles as my background, but also, I had a chairman of the board and I would say the whole board and the owner family, they really see sustainability as more integrated. So, within the H&M group, it wasn't that type of big deal.
But if I look at the industry as a whole, I think sustainability is not overall seen as a business role. And I think that is the core problem. I'm sure that equality and the kind of gender question that you brought up is part of it as well, because if you look at certain business roles, we all see that a majority is held by men.
And if you look at kind of the supporting roles, you see more women. So, I'm sure that's kind of part of the system change that has to happen. My world within H&M was like a majority of the leaders were women. So, I think I might come from a bubble that is not fully comparable.
But I do think that the main point is that chief sustainability officer is not often seen as a business role.
Porritt
I couldn't agree more. And honestly, it's staggering to me that it isn't seen as an absolutely central business role, something on the margins, not at the core, as you put it. It is still astonishing to me, when you look at the world today and what's happening in the world, that that is still the case in so many companies.
And I'm worried by that, Helena, because you wonder what it is that's going to shift that, because if we're saying that the really overarching priority now is to get sustainability right at the core of all companies, how much more external evidence do those business leaders need to make sure that's the case?
I mean, it's impossible to imagine stronger signals coming back from society, from the planet, from the environment, from the climate. Those signals are now loud and clear every day in the ears and the eyes of every single business leader. And yet, still sustainability is not core.
Helmersson
Yeah. I really used to think that once climate change becomes an issue here and now and not in like five, 10 years, it will happen. But now we're there, you know, now we see fires, we see flooding, we even experienced a pandemic, and still, we don't have the sense of urgency when it comes to sustainability.
So, I have ended up believing a lot in laws and regulations. I think that you need to make it straight, that you need to kind of operate within the planetary boundaries. Then you need to take care of your waste. You need to have kind of a producer responsibility. You need to do due diligence in your value chain. I think the day when this is regulated, it will be seen as the core.
Porritt
Yes, I agree. And I keep hoping that those regulations will just begin to impact much more directly on many different sectors. It's quite a difficult time to be thinking about really cost-effective, well-planned, well-designed and well-implemented regulation, because we live in an age where politicians are often looking pretty lost about this stuff. They're confused.
They don't quite know where they should be putting their own leadership values. It's a bit of a nightmare going on in America. Let's be honest. The EU has been put onto the back foot a bit. They've postponed many of the things that I think would have helped put sustainability at the core.
They've pushed that back now maybe because of pressure from elsewhere. And it's not a good time for the idea of political leadership much more influentially shaping what business should do. That seems to be almost out of fashion at the moment to think about regulation taking on that role.
Helmersson
No, I fully agree. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Gartner Hype Cycle that is often used to describe the different kind of phases of new technologies. But I think in the same way when it comes to this, I think about, I mean, the first point of the curve is the inflated expectations. I think of like 2020, when I took over as CEO in the H&M Group, I think we were at that point because the sustainability space was filled with bold promises. It was about green visions for the future. Greta Thunberg was at the cover of Time Magazine as the person of the year. It was really a hype around the issue of sustainability or more concretely about climate.
But then things happened. Then we saw the pandemic, we saw the war in Europe, and we saw issues regarding cybersecurity, AI and trade war. Now I think we're down in the valley of dissolution from that hype cycle, I really think so. There's a lot of noise that has made many people feel that this is not the priority, and we're a bit confused. But I think more importantly, it's the phase after that is important, because there will be a shift. There will be a shift of enlightenment when you see that this is the core.
And when those big headlines will be turned into making and creating true value, where attention will gradually go up again, maybe not to the same level as before, but more importantly, the impact will skyrocket. And I think it's up to us and business leaders to kind of get customers, shareholders, businesses and industries there.
Porritt
Yeah, well, I certainly hope so. You mentioned a lot of things that have pricked to the sustainability bubble, as it were, all those other external factors you didn't include in your list, a kind of reassertion of the shareholder primacy, of the shareholder-first story about what wealth creation looks like — profit maximizing shareholder-first.
And, I was reflecting the other day, it's now nearly 15 years since Michael Porter and colleagues published that crucially important paper on shared value. The Harvard Business Review in 2011 had this, one of the most cited papers ever in the Harvard Business Review, about the notion of shared value, where shareholders would share much more of the value created by those companies with other stakeholders, whether those were internal to the company in terms of employees or external stakeholders, whatever it might be.
And there was, you'll remember this, Helena, there was a great buzz of excitement about shared value and everyone said, yes, that's the kind of capitalism we want, where shareholders are still, by virtue of their position in law, fiduciary duties and so on, shareholders will still probably command more attention than any other stakeholder in the process, but the value will be shared much more fairly and intelligently from the point of view of the future than has been the case in the past. I think now about that paper, Michael Porter's notion of shared value, and I think, where has that gone?
I mean, right now, we're back to pretty primitive shareholder primacy, driven by a lot of so-called activist investors sitting on boards saying, no, our job is to sort out what we owe shareholders and to make sure that shareholders are maximizing the returns on their investment in our company. And everything else is secondary to that. Haven't we just gone back to the sort of 15, 20 years ago? Wouldn't Milton Friedman be delighted to see the ways in which the hype bubble has got us literally nowhere, it would seem. I'm only posing that rhetorically. I think we have made a lot of progress by the way, but I am a bit concerned at the moment about this return to shareholder value.
Helmersson
Yeah, the shared value concept never became the norm, right? It was a little bit different in different companies in how you kind of adopted it, but it never became the norm. And also, in my view, legislation did not follow either to force.
Porritt
Hmm.
Helmersson
You know, I believe in the carrot and the stick. You also need to kind of shape the form of regulations to kind of really move that needle. And I think to some extent, like I said before, I come from a company, where the engagement from the owner family, from the board, sustainability is very, very high up on the agenda.
Like when I went to AGM (annual general meetings) and met all shareholders, I bet like 80% of the questions were about sustainability. It was unbelievable so if I compare with other CEOs ...
Porritt
Yeah.
Helmersson
… I think I come from a place where maybe I can't compare it. But nevertheless, the shared value concept never became the norm, so I think that's the question. How do you make sure that you kind of, whether you use the carrot or the stick, you kind of force industries to change their internal structures, their way of working, so that we kind of together move the whole system?
Porritt
But recognizing those very important facts about H&M. I mean, not completely unique, there are other companies that are similarly purpose-driven, but nonetheless, it's not all that common. And with what you said earlier, Helena, that the perspective of being out of a CEO role now gives greater clarity on some of the things. What would you be saying to CEOs who aren't in a company like H&M? What words of advice are you going to offer those CEOs who maybe are not finding it easy to manage the conflict between business priorities and sustainability?
Helmersson
Yeah. I mean, I think being now away, having stepped down as the CEO, you kind of see things clearer just because you see things from a distance. And to me, if I would ask myself what could I have done even better, I'm thinking about three things.
First, I'm thinking about the company actually designing the structures and the internal system, so that the teams and the organizations would not have to deal with a conflict between sustainability and profitability, meaning you design a system that might be complex for the few, but simple for the many.
Secondly, it's about consumers, making sure that you meet their real needs with your sustainability offer and don't talk about other parts of the value chain, which is too distant for them, but actually creating those customer offering.
And thirdly, I think it's about going deep in partnerships. So, if you are going to change a whole system, you cannot be everywhere in the whole value chain where you see a risk. You need to look into where the biggest risks are. And there you find the right partners and you go deep to truly, truly change things. And you have the patience to do so. That would be the three things.
If I would end with an overall kind of advice to CEOs, I would really advise everyone to see sustainability as part of the core business and integrated in the vision and the business strategy to create the energy about the direction, where everybody should take steps toward that direction and make that really meaningful to all your employees and part of your core business.
Porritt
Well, I think the business world would look very different if CEOs acted on those words of advice. It makes such obvious sense to me because of the state of the world today and the state of society. I'd like to add one thing, which is, you know what used to really bug me, Helena, was CEOs or business leaders who would often have photos of their family, their children on their desks or prominently displayed on a nearby sideboard, whatever it might be. And you think, okay, well, here's a business leader who really cares about his family or her family, whatever it might be. And this is obviously part of what makes them the leader they are. Well, yes and no.
Because if business leaders today were really focused on what the future looks like for their children, if they have children, or for their family more broadly, it's impossible to imagine that business leadership would be so inadequate. Sorry to say that, but collectively so inadequate, given the implications of the climate crisis, the nature crisis, for young people today.
So, I suppose my rather more skeptical, possibly even cynical advice to CEOs would be stop sticking up photos of your family and your children in your office, if you have no intention whatsoever of reflecting those interests in the decisions you make and the leader that you are.
So, that sounds a bit tough, but I've sort of reverted more to my campaigning life now, Helena, as you've probably discovered, and therefore, it's a bit easier for me to be slightly ruder to CEOs than I was when I was trying to advise them to change their ways.
I'm making light of it, but I wish people joined up more of their business leadership with what I'm sure they see themselves like as citizens, which are people who care about the future as much as they do about the present.
Helmersson
The thing is, I mean, you're talking to an ex-CEO that had a family picture on my desk.
Porritt
[laughs] I did wonder about that.
Helmersson
No, I think that there are quite many CEOs that have the intention to do the right thing. It's not easy. It's hard to do so. And I think it's difficult to kind of pinpoint only one part of the system to make that change. To me, it's about CEOs, it's about politicians, it's about NGOs and it's about media. Everyone has to kind of step up the game and make sure that we're kind of moving. Everyone has to lean in.
I think it always becomes silo-fied discussion if you only pinpoint one of the roles to step up. And I know that integrating sustainability and really creating that impact in an industry is really, really hard, because you also need to get others come on board and make that change and make it into a concrete agenda.
And as long as sustainability and the collective instinct is that it's on the side, it's really, really hard to get that collective effort that we need to move the needle.
Porritt
I do of course entirely agree with you, and I know we're all having to step up and lean in and make things work more effectively than they're working at the moment. I totally agree with you on that. And obviously when I'm thinking about the politics of it, we certainly need to bring much more pressure to bear on the politicians to devise and deliver the kind of informed regulation that we've been talking about today.
I totally agree with that. But I wouldn't want us ever to let business leaders off the hook. They're in positions of huge privilege in society. They're very well remunerated. They're very fortunate people. They're amongst the entitled few, and their responsibilities should be commensurate with all of that status and good fortune they have.
Helmersson
Yes, and talking about that, I also think business leaders need to lean in, so that the right regulations and laws are being shaped. Also there, I don't think it's only up to politicians. It's about a collective effort to make sure that it gets right, because business leaders are the ones with the right knowledge and expertise to see what is needed. So also, when it comes to that, I don't think you can be passive. You really need to lean in.
Porritt
Absolutely agree. And it would be so much better to hear business leaders in the media using their voice as the leader of these companies to talk about the benefits of regulation rather than endlessly banging on about the costs and the burdens and the red tape that goes with regulation. It just seems to me — I'd love to hear some true business leadership about the benefits of well-designed, well-implemented regulation, because it would send out a very strong signal. We don't hear many business leaders talking about that, to be honest.
Helmersson
Yeah, no, that is so true.
Porritt
Thank you so much, Helena!
Helmersson
Thank you
Sarda
That was Helena Helmersson, ex-CEO of the fashion giant H&M Group, and environmental activist and writer Jonathon Porrit. As I said at the beginning of this episode, this is the EY Sustainability Matters podcast. You can find all past episodes of the show on ey.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode of Sustainability Matters, we'd love for you to subscribe. Ratings, reviews and comments are also always very welcome.
Please also visit ey.com, where you can find a wide range of related and interesting articles that will help put these bigger topics in the context of your business priorities. I look forward to welcoming you on the next episode of Sustainability Matters. My name is Bruno Sarda. You can find me on LinkedIn. Feel free to connect with me there. Thanks so much for listening.
This is a transcript of the EY Sustainability Matters Podcast which was recorded on May 20, 2025. Please note that the transcript has been edited for presentational purposes.
