Série Energy Drivers – Comment le leadership des femmes peut‑il stimuler l’innovation et la compétitivité dans la transition énergétique du Canada?

00:00:01 - 00:01:04

Lance Mortlock

Welcome to the next episode of the Energy Drivers podcast. I'm Lance Mortlock, your host for today's discussion with Tracey Bodnarchuk, Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Canada Powered by Women. Throughout our series, we invite Canadian energy and industrial leaders to engage in discussions on key issues, share insights and pose challenging questions. We're pleased to welcome Tracey, who brings over 20 years of experience in marketing, sales and strategy across organizations including SAP, Microsoft, Suncor. CPW or Canada Powered by Women is a nonpartisan organization dedicated to amplifying women's voices in energy conversations. Today, we will discuss the importance of women in Canada's energy industry, the role of inclusive practices, and the value in coordinated collaboration across the industry, government and communities as it relates to the energy transition. Tracey, thank you for joining us.

00:01:05 - 00:01:07

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Thank you for having me, Lance, I am really happy to be here.

00:01:08 – 00:01:24

Lance Mortlock

So, to kick things off, Canada Powered by Women was launched to better understand and evaluate women's voices in Canada's energy conversation. Can you tell us a bit about CPW's mandate and what you're working to achieve?

00:01:25 – 00:03:30

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Sure. I'm happy to. You know, our origin is actually grounded in the idea that women had very specific thoughts about energy, the economy and climate.

And we've actually been around a long time, even though it seems like we just sprung up. We're almost seven years old as an organization. And so, if you can imagine back seven years ago, we thought a number of us, that the conversation about energy and climate was really polarized. So, the trajectory of how polarized it's got over seven years is nothing compared. Like when we started, it was nothing, and it's been very polarized over many years. I'm actually one of eight founders. We started with a group of about 40 women that got together here in Alberta, in Calgary, to bring the temperature down on the whole conversation around energy and climate, and that's how we started. And we've tried many things over the years, but the intention of the organization was always to have more, frankly, chill conversations about energy and to amplify and ask women about what they think about energy and their priorities.

And our mandate has always been to bring the perspectives of women into discussions around energy policy, so that energy policy is sound. And what we mean by that is it takes into consideration the balance of priorities that women have. And we've always felt that it's been overweighted to the environment discussion, which isn't actually fully aligned with where women see the priorities for their daily life, for their children, for their families, and for our economy. It's not fully weighted to just one priority. So that's our mandate, is to bring the voices of women to the discussion, ask them what they think, and then bring that to policymakers, the public and the media.

00:03:31 - 00:03:32

Lance Mortlock

How long have you been on the journey now?

00:03:33 – 00:04:49

Tracey Bodnarchuk

It kind of started about eight years ago. It fully formed with an actual first meeting seven years ago. And at that time, a woman named Céline Gerson, she was the impetus of this. She was the country manager of Schlumberger at the time, and she had worked all over the world. And she was here in Alberta as the country manager for Schlumberger. And she was asking questions of women in the industry, particularly Sue Rose, around why is Canada's energy so beat up on? Because it's some of the best-produced energy in the world. And that was from a woman who was in leadership positions around the globe. So, Céline started this with Sue Riddell Rose, and they had the first meeting. And we met, if you can imagine, there was originally about 15 of us. It started at 40, then it was 15, then it was 8. And this group of 8, we met every single Friday at seven in the morning for four years, and we tried all kinds of things, but we finally hit our stride. And around 2022-2023, right after COVID.

00:04:50 – 00:05:18

Lance Mortlock

When I was preparing for this podcast, I found that your research shows that 77% of engaged women support LNG development and exports. Yet, and you alluded to this in your opening comments, the prevailing narrative can sometimes suggest otherwise. What are some common assumptions, misconceptions about women's roles in energy projects that you believe need to be challenged based on the research you've done?

00:05:19 – 00:08:42

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Well, I kind of indicated the idea earlier that policy, energy policy, you know, has had a bit of an imbalance. At least that's how we see it. And it's also how engaged women see it.

And our audience, I should clarify that phrase of engaged women as a foundation for our conversation. Because engaged women, all that means, which again challenges assumptions that women are really highly informed. And we correlate the idea that a thriving energy sector means a thriving economy. So, there's very specific behavioural habits around engaged women. So, we take in the news, we really follow politics. We are of all political stripes; we are a nonpartisan organization. But engaged women make this connection around energy and what it means for our economy. And there is an assumption that we don't know about energy or understand some of the energy policies or the effect energy has on our lives, and women really do get that. So, this idea that women are all about the environment and that's their number-one thing, it’s just not true. It's very important. And it's in the top priorities for women. But it's not their only lens when it comes to energy and policy.

So right now, there's this major conversation going on across the country about LNG and LNG development. And we asked women about liquid natural gas three years ago. And the question around that was, what do you think about liquid natural gas as a mechanism to lower global emissions? And I say that cautiously because of greenwashing rules. And when we asked that question, that legislation was not in place. So, you could make a statement like that without repercussion. But the fact that LNG is a lower-emitting fossil fuel compared to coal, I feel comfortable saying that. We've now asked women around, do you support the idea of LNG displacing higher-emitting fossil fuels in other parts of the world? And women do 100% support that. And we also have asked them about liquid natural gas as a source of revenue for Canada. So, if we're exporting it and we're responsibly developing it, it will give revenue for the country for our social safety net, and it will also displace fossil, higher-emitting fossil fuels. Which I always think is funny, the idea that, you know, emissions don't go upward in a linear manner. They're global in nature. So, if we can reduce emissions by displacing other fuel sources, why wouldn't we? And so that's the type of discussion we have. And when we asked women a couple of years ago about LNG, that was 77% said that they would support that.

But I'll also highlight and it's a national view.

00:08:43 – 00:08:58

Lance Mortlock

Yeah, I was going to interject on that. So that is a national view. And you take presumably a balanced number of participants to the survey across all the provinces. So, you know, in particular BC and Québec, you're getting input from those provinces.

00:08:59 – 00:09:45

Tracey Bodnarchuk

That's right. So that 77% is on average across the country. And our audience of engaged women is proportionate to the population. So, 38% of our audience is based in Ontario, for example. The other thing I'll mention, too, is that we ask women about their political beliefs, even though we're a nonpartisan organization, and we know that 42% of engaged women say they're right in the middle in terms of their political beliefs. Our smallest segment actually is on the right. And then the left, which is larger. So, we're getting perspectives of women that are also not in a political lens.

00:09:46 – 00:09:52

Lance Mortlock

So, you are not just polling conservative women in Alberta. You're actually polling all kinds of women across different views across the country.

00:09:53 – 00:09:54

Tracey Bodnarchuk

And it's our mandate, Lance, to have a national conversation.

00:09:55 – 00:09:56

Lance Mortlock

For sure.

00:09:57 – 00:10:04

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Not an Alberta one. So that 77% that support liquid natural gas, I think it's like 78% in Ontario.

00:10:05 – 00:10:32

Lance Mortlock

Energy affordability has become a top issue for Canadian households. Stats show that energy CPI rose 105% between 2002 and 2023, believe it or not, far outpacing income growth, which is frightening when you think about it. How is affordability shaping women's perspectives on energy, and how does that differ across the different demographics?

00:10:33 - 00:12:25

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Well you know it's interesting, when the women in our surveys that say energy is the least affordable, believe it or not, are in Alberta. How funny is that? Like, we are the hub of where there's a lot of energy here. And yet we have some of the highest prices, at least pre removal of the carbon tax, the consumer carbon tax.

But, you know, if you think about women and the role that they play in a household, there's the purchasing, the paying the bills and all the rest of it. And what we saw over a couple of years was this absolute idea that, you know, the cost of gas, the cost of heating your home or cooling your home, women saw that very clearly on bills and in the day-to-day cost driving kids around. And I don't mean to stereotype that, but the role of women in the household tends to be managing some of that stuff. And so, we saw things like 59% or 58% of women saying that energy policy was making their life financially more difficult. So, we literally saw that.

 And now we're still seeing affordability coming through when you ask women about housing, or just different expenses for the house, inflation. And they're putting together this idea that there's a lot of policy that is affecting the costs. And they want affordable, reliable energy. So, they know when they turn the light switch, the lights come on, and they can afford to pay for that. So, this affordability piece is a big piece for women, who are also big purchasers. Lots of purchasing power in that audience.

00:12:26 – 00:12:27

Lance Mortlock

Yeah. And it's not going away.

00:12:28 – 00:12:29

Tracey Bodnarchuk

No.

00:12:30 – 00:12:40

Lance Mortlock

It's like we've got the whole affordability, security and sustainability trilemma out of whack a little bit. Things need to be in balance, but it feels like it's out of balance for the moment.

00:12:41- 00:13:10

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Well, and we're still trying to, I think in the future here with our next rounds of research, we're going to dig into things like, where does the industrial carbon tax fit in affordability? Because inevitably you just can't increase the costs of operations for companies and businesses and expect that's just absorbed and it doesn't end up in the lap of the consumer in some manner.

Like if you look at food costs, for example. So, we're going to dig into that.

00:13:11 – 00:13:16

Lance Mortlock

Do you expect policy to change in this term of government. What's your view on that.

00:13:17 – 00:14:15

Tracey Bodnarchuk

We're trying to be optimistic because we're seeing good signals. So, things like major projects and Bill C5. I think, though, policy like the emissions cap, which really affects the ability to produce, or the impact assessment, which affects the ability to have new projects. So C5 is a great signal. And we know that women, engaged women, want to see simplified regulation and an energy corridor, pipelines because, again, they get the connection to the economy. But C5 does not address policy reform at all. And so, it's a band aid perhaps to get things done faster. So that's a good signal. But we need to see some other things happen to really align.

00:14:16 - 00:14:20

Lance Mortlock

Yeah. It feels like the last few months has been a good start. But we now need action.

00:14:21 – 00:14:35

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Right. So, there's this whole discussion right now about Grey Cup and the idea that announcements are going to be made. But there's also going to be a budget. So, you should ask me this question, or we should have this chat in about a month.

00:14:36 - 00:15:05

Lance Mortlock

That's right. In just the past year, some support among engaged women for expanding oil and gas as part of Canada's prosperity rose 20 percentage points. I'm interested in what explains this change. What does it mean for the broader energy debate? This whole uplift in terms of percentage points? How do you explain that?

00:15:06 – 00:16:04

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Well, I would say that President Donald Trump has had a lot to do with the sort of big shift in perspective that took place from when he took office. And then couple that with our own election, where energy became a big platform issue for the conservatives in the Liberal Party and this idea of energy independence. So the whole tariff war took a discussion that our audience of women was already having around responsible development, balanced policy, economic prosperity, and it just catapulted it with a sense of urgency. And also this whole informing idea that when people understand, and we know from our research that women didn't know, 67% didn't know that we didn't have a pipeline from east to west.

00:16:05 – 00:16:06

Lance Mortlock

 Which is amazing.

00:16:07 – 00:16:08

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Which is amazing.

00:16:08 - 00:16:10

Lance Mortlock

We live and breathe.

00:16:11 – 00:17:43

Tracey Bodnarchuk

 And these are informed women who are informed. And they did not know that we don't have that. They also didn't know that we sell, what is it, 80%, 90% of our energy oil to the US and that they refine it and then we buy it back.

And so, when we do our surveys, and Lance you know I get asked this all the time, or I often get this statement that says, well you could phrase a question in any way to get the answer that you want. And that is true. But we work with Leger in our survey, and they don't allow us to manipulate questions and prefab ideas. We have to be very thoughtful in the way we ask. But we often will ask a question based on what is a woman's level of understanding at that point. And then we might provide a sentence, so for example, did you know that Canada does not have an East to West Coast pipeline? And then women will say, I did not know that. So, then our next question is would you support that? And then women are like, of course I would. So we know that this whole threatening posture that went on, around tariffs and industries really affected women's perspectives.

So, we saw a 20-percentage point increase in the acceptance and acknowledgment of oil and gas as a fundamental contributor to our economic prosperity. That's the highest we've seen in over three years of consistent research.

00:17:44 – 00:17:58

Lance Mortlock

And the independent survey body that you use for these kinds of surveys, just explain to our listeners a bit about that, how does that work? Who are they and what do they and why is that important?

00:17:59 – 00:18:44

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Yeah, it's really important because, you know, surveying is not only an art, it's a science. And you need to have very credible researchers that are formulating questions, composition of audiences and things like that. So, you know, sometimes when you're on the radio and you'll hear a Leger poll says or an Angus Reid poll says, those are pollsters. And they're national pollsters with a lot of depth and expertise. So, we work with Leger, they're based out of Québec, and they have what's called a panel. And most survey firms have panels, and that means that there's a group of people who agree to do surveys, and they get compensated to do the surveys, and they provide.

00:18:45 - 00:18:46

Lance Mortlock

So, you pay them.

00:18:47 – 00:19:22

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Well, we don't pay them. Leger pays them. And Leger’s panel is the largest panel in Canada. It's almost a million Canadians, and they are paid to participate in the panel, not our surveys. So, when Leger does research, they draw upon their panel. And like when someone's doing our questions, they have to qualify, qualify and out. If they don't recognize the connection between energy and the economy, if they don't take in the news and do other behavioural things, they wouldn't be in our survey. So that's an important thing.

00:19:23 – 00:19:42

Lance Mortlock

So, that adds a huge amount of rigour and robustness to your survey and your results. So that I imagine when you go and meet with policymakers, you can really stand behind the insights that you're sharing as representative of Canadian women and what they're thinking at the time.

00:19:43 - 00:19:44

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Yeah. Very important.

00:19:45 – 00:20:10

Lance Mortlock

Nearly 9 in 10 engaged women favour reducing reliance on the US energy trade and 85% back building more domestic pipeline refining capacity, which you alluded to. Can you speak a little bit about how are trade tensions, tariffs and energy independence shaping women's views on Canada's role in North America's energy system in a bit more detail?

00:20:11 - 00:22:14

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Well, clearly, women do understand that our economy is having some significant issues. And, you know, I mentioned this sense of urgency that's coming from tariffs and whatnot. But I also think that our own discussions amongst, you know, Canadian political leaders like Pierre Poilievre, Prime Minister Mark Carney, and others has sort of brought to the forefront this idea that we need to get going, like things need to happen and engaged women are sort of at this point of we need to get things done and get out of our own way.

And they see it as energy independence. But it's also becoming about Canadian sovereignty, too, where it's we need to have energy independence so that we're economically independent and that protects our identity.

So, if you think of some of the “51st state” rhetoric, the elbows-up kind of thinking, and we know women are quite in the elbows-up mode. But part of that is that recognition, that means we have to build it ourselves. We need to look within our own country and create opportunities for jobs in the future. I think that's something else we're going to dig into quite a bit in our future that, you know, women have kids and families, husbands and wives and other traditional and nontraditional families have children that can't get jobs. And it's beyond the idea of just getting a job. It's a high-paying job, a career, being able to move into apartment, get out of your parents’ basements. I kind of chuckle and smile when I say that, but there's a lot of discussion around that. So, this whole idea of trade tensions and tariffs, it's bigger than energy, obviously. Look at the automobile industry, look at the steel industry and women connect all of this stuff around what makes our economy successful. And energy is a huge part of that.

00:22:15 – 00:23:26

Lance Mortlock

 Yeah, I think I told you when we were chatting a few weeks ago, I had the opportunity to speak at McGill, at UBC, at Rotman and the University of Calgary on different topics to business students. And the most common theme, and I've never seen it before, I've been speaking at universities for 15 years, is, you know, young kids are worried about getting jobs, really worried. It's a common theme that keeps coming to the surface. You know, particularly in the world of AI, which, by the way, needs more energy as well. But where are those jobs going to come from in the future?

And the importance of recognizing that we are a resource-based economy, blessed with resources that European countries, for example, don't have. How do we get out of our own way? I interviewed Goldy Hyder from the Business Council of Canada, a month ago. And, you know, he talked about, he has this great quote where he says, you know, “if not us, who? And if not now, when?”

00:23:27 - 00:23:28

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Yeah. Great quote.

00:23:29 – 00:24:05

Lance Mortlock

We have a crisis moment. And I always say in business, never waste a good crisis. That kind of leads me into my next question. You know, building on your previous points. In 2025, the US administration has adopted a more favourable stance on energy development. In fact, Donald Trump's talked about Keystone again, believe it or not.

And, in comparison to our neighbour, what are your thoughts on the Canadian government's energy position and strategy right now?

00:24:06 – 00:24:12

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Well, as I said earlier, I'm optimistic and I'm also confused.

00:24:13 – 00:24:14

Lance Mortlock

What are you confused about?

00:24:15 – 00:26:29

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Well, so, you know, we just happened to be doing some advocacy days, and we're in the middle of that, where we take the research and we did a national report, and we take that and we go and we talk to policymakers. So, we just spent a day, two days actually, in British Columbia. And it was right when Premier Smith and Premier Ebe were lobbying back and forth about this West Coast pipeline. And so, and you've seen some really interesting shifts and ideas emerging out of BC around liquid natural gas development. And then you see the Premier, who absolutely, the Premier of Alberta, who clearly does not want to be, you know, building a pipeline, but is willing to take the risk as a proponent to at least get that opening. Because the discussion around pipeline development and energy corridors is kind of fraught with this idea: well, there's no proponent. And the reason there's no proponent is because of things like the impact assessment, which no proponent can be successful. That's why there's no proponent. And C5 doesn't address that, and C5 also still has a two-year review cycle. So C5 is not, like two years doesn't feel urgent to me.

So, then you hear the federal Minister of Energy talking about how BC and Alberta are going to have to work it out as to whether or not there's a pipeline, but it's actually not a BC jurisdictional decision in its entirety. It's actually federal jurisdiction. And then you have someone bringing up Carnie and Trump talking about reviving Keystone. And so, Keystone is a continuation of exporting our energy at a massive discount to the US.

00:26:30 – 00:26:31

Lance Mortlock

Yeah. Why would we do that?

00:26:32 – 00:27:12

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Right. Because maybe we don't want to get into squabbles amongst provinces. But at some point, and this is why I'm confused. Because where engaged women are, and I've just spelled out what I'm seeing, it doesn't reflect any personal opinion of mine or even the opinion of engaged women. But what engaged women are looking for is bold policy reform. And so some of what I've just described, you know, needs leadership and engaged women want leadership from policymakers to resolve things and to get things going.

00:27:13 - 00:27:14

Lance Mortlock

What do you think's lacking in terms of leadership right now?

00:27:15 – 00:27:49

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Well, I don't know yet because and that's why I'm a bit confused, because the signals are there for leadership. But it has to follow through. And I think it does mean that you're going to have some people that are really happy, some people that aren't, some people that are in the middle. But if we truly want to be the energy superpower and we truly want to leverage the amazing resources we have and, by the way, not just oil and gas and liquid natural gas, but nuclear, critical minerals, all of it.

00:27:50 – 00:27:51

Lance Mortlock

Water.

00:27:52 – 00:28:13

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Yes, we have to make some big, bold decisions and be okay with that not everyone's going to be on side with every single thing, but as a nation, we're going to move forward. And engaged women want that sovereignty and bold policy reform. And so, I think C5 was bold, but it's certainly not enough.

00:28:14 – 00:28:44

Lance Mortlock

You need to build momentum though. It's a bit like the first wave of projects that have come out as part of the nation-building list. The first five the hardly nation building. Many of them have regulatory approval already. But I think it's smart to build that momentum to get things moving, show some progress and everybody's watching what does wave to look like. And those will be the true litmus test in my mind of, are we really going to do this or not?

00:28:45 – 00:29:08

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Well, that and coupled with whatever's coming in the budget. Because the budget needs to be paid for and there's a discussion about austerity and investment, and how those two things come together, means you do need a thriving industry sectors to drive revenue for the country.

00:29:10 - 00:29:25

Lance Mortlock

In terms of private sector money, coming in, like the government can't pay for everything. Otherwise, we'll all be taxed to the hill, and our debt will go up and that will drive inflation and those things, that's a vicious cycle isn't it?

00:29:26 – 00:30:09

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Yeah. And capital investment needs to come back, and it needs to be enabled.

So, the government paying for everything is not the answer. The government facilitating investment and development, and again responsible development. So, I do want to make sure I say that like women and engaged women are not giving industry a free pass when it comes to climate. Like they are expecting tech in innovation, emissions reduction and for industry and government to work together.

And so, we have all the right kind of seeds here to really thrive. But we need to be bold.

00:30:10 – 00:31:11

Lance Mortlock

One of the things that I hope for, and I remain optimistic is, is there this great bargain or this great compromise that they talk about where, you know, we can grow production by a million barrels or whatever it is, get a crude oil pipeline, but at the same time build carbon sequestration system in the province to, you know, drive towards net zero. And that's the big middle ground that sometimes we forget or, we don't necessarily strive for as hard as we should do. And I'm hopeful that that's where we'll get to.

My next question is, many energy transformation discussions are framed either by industry or policymakers. Canadian engaged women focuses very much on consumers. Why do you think that perspective is important and how does it change the conversation about Canada's energy future in your mind?

00:31:12 – 00:32:50

Tracey Bodnarchuk

It's really important that we're representing consumers and, you know, as a marketing sales kind of professional, that's the language that I'm accustomed to. There is a lot of discussion that already happens amongst businesses and industries and people in leadership. But there's also a lot of conversation that happens around this stuff that is actually happening at kitchen tables with families, particularly when you've got kids in school and students in university and your family, and these discussions are happening.

And so, we think it's very important for us to bring a nonpartisan lens that's not a business lens, but a recognition that citizens, women, understand the impacts of all of this on our daily lives. And so, we think that's very important.

And then also for policymakers, when we go and talk to policymakers, and of course, they have polling of their own and they have lots of data. But as far as we know, we're the only ones that we have found in Canada that are actually advocating for women's perspectives 00:29:26 – 00:30:09

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Yeah. And capital investment needs to come back, and it needs to be enabled.

So, the government paying for everything is not the answer. The government facilitating investment and development, and again responsible development. So, I do want to make sure I say that like women and engaged women are not giving industry a free pass when it comes to climate. Like they are expecting tech in innovation, emissions reduction and for industry and government to work together.

And so, we have all the right kind of seeds here to really thrive. But we need to be bold.

00:30:10 – 00:31:11

Lance Mortlock

One of the things that I hope for, and I remain optimistic is, is there this great bargain or this great compromise that they talk about where, you know, we can grow production by a million barrels or whatever it is, get a crude oil pipeline, but at the same time build carbon sequestration system in the province to, you know, drive towards net zero. And that's the big middle ground that sometimes we forget or, we don't necessarily strive for as hard as we should do. And I'm hopeful that that's where we'll get to.

My next question is, many energy transformation discussions are framed either by industry or policymakers. Canadian engaged women focuses very much on consumers. Why do you think that perspective is important and how does it change the conversation about Canada's energy future in your mind?

00:31:12 – 00:32:50

Tracey Bodnarchuk

It's really important that we're representing consumers and, you know, as a marketing sales kind of professional, that's the language that I'm accustomed to. There is a lot of discussion that already happens amongst businesses and industries and people in leadership. But there's also a lot of conversation that happens around this stuff that is actually happening at kitchen tables with families, particularly when you've got kids in school and students in university and your family, and these discussions are happening.

And so, we think it's very important for us to bring a nonpartisan lens that's not a business lens, but a recognition that citizens, women, understand the impacts of all of this on our daily lives. And so, we think that's very important.

And then also for policymakers, when we go and talk to policymakers, and of course, they have polling of their own and they have lots of data. But as far as we know, we're the only ones that we have found in Canada that are actually advocating for women's perspectives 00:29:26 – 00:30:09

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Yeah. And capital investment needs to come back, and it needs to be enabled.

So, the government paying for everything is not the answer. The government facilitating investment and development, and again responsible development. So, I do want to make sure I say that like women and engaged women are not giving industry a free pass when it comes to climate. Like they are expecting tech in innovation, emissions reduction and for industry and government to work together.

And so, we have all the right kind of seeds here to really thrive. But we need to be bold.

00:30:10 – 00:31:11

Lance Mortlock

One of the things that I hope for, and I remain optimistic is, is there this great bargain or this great compromise that they talk about where, you know, we can grow production by a million barrels or whatever it is, get a crude oil pipeline, but at the same time build carbon sequestration system in the province to, you know, drive towards net zero. And that's the big middle ground that sometimes we forget or, we don't necessarily strive for as hard as we should do. And I'm hopeful that that's where we'll get to.

My next question is, many energy transformation discussions are framed either by industry or policymakers. Canadian engaged women focuses very much on consumers. Why do you think that perspective is important and how does it change the conversation about Canada's energy future in your mind?

00:31:12 – 00:32:50

Tracey Bodnarchuk

It's really important that we're representing consumers and, you know, as a marketing sales kind of professional, that's the language that I'm accustomed to. There is a lot of discussion that already happens amongst businesses and industries and people in leadership. But there's also a lot of conversation that happens around this stuff that is actually happening at kitchen tables with families, particularly when you've got kids in school and students in university and your family, and these discussions are happening.

And so, we think it's very important for us to bring a nonpartisan lens that's not a business lens, but a recognition that citizens, women, understand the impacts of all of this on our daily lives. And so, we think that's very important.

And then also for policymakers, when we go and talk to policymakers, and of course, they have polling of their own and they have lots of data. But as far as we know, we're the only ones that we have found in Canada that are actually advocating for women's perspectives in energy transformation. And that's because we think these women, who vote, are very important, and their perspectives matter.

So how do we break through the clutter and ask them what they think and then bring that to a policymaker. And we find policymakers of all political stripes are so willing to talk to us.

00:32:51 – 00:32:52

Lance Mortlock

Why do you think that is?

00:32:53 – 00:33:42

Tracey Bodnarchuk

 I think because when we talk about where women are at, it's counterintuitive to the narrative. And so that counterintuitive is an insight that they're polling may not have or the way we're asking and what we're asking isn't typically what you would talk about.

So, when we did our first national survey, we actually made sure, are women even talking about this, do they even care? And we did that to validate whether or not this was a legitimate audience that was legitimately informed in having these conversations. And what we found back then was that 24.5% of women in Canada were truly interested in this.

00:33:43 - 00:34:14

Lance Mortlock

And when you show up to these meetings, you know, maybe with some of the liberal, or the left-leaning policymakers, is there a perspective that, you know, here we go again, a group of conservative women showing up to talk about the energy industry. And if that's the case, how do you bust that myth? Like, maybe talk about your team, the board, how it's made up, some of those things?

00:34:15 - 00:35:30

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Well, I know your listeners can't see me smiling right now, but the reason I'm smiling is because we get that all the time. Not just with policymakers, but everywhere. Oh, you're just a bunch of conservative women from Western Canada who all work in the oil and gas industry. And what I will always point to is, I mentioned earlier the political beliefs and the composition of the audience of engaged women. And actually, the smallest segment we have is on the right, or women who would say they're on the right. Their political beliefs are primarily in the middle. And so, we don't reflect the opinions of conservative women. We reflect the opinions of women on the left, the middle and the right. We exclude strongly left, and we exclude strongly left because it's not an audience that's engaged in the conversation that's aligned with our vision. And our vision and mission is that we do see, in the energy mix, all forms of energy with none excluded.

So, if you don't believe that the energy mix includes all forms of energy, that's very misaligned with our organizational mandate.

00:35:31 – 00:35:32

Lance Mortlock

But why wouldn't you survey those women?

00:35:33 – 00:35:38

Tracey Bodnarchuk

We don't survey them, and we don't survey the extreme right, either. Because we want to facilitate balanced conversation.

00:35:39 – 00:35:40

Lance Mortlock

 It's just too extreme.

00:35:41 – 00:35:42

Tracey Bodnarchuk

It's just too extreme.

00:35:43 – 00:35:45

Lance Mortlock

It's not even worth engaging in in the conversation.

00:35:46 - 00:35:56

Tracey Bodnarchuk

That's right. And so that doesn't mean, though, that women with those views don't come to our events and participate with us. We still do that. We just don't survey.

00:35:57 – 00:36:14

Lance Mortlock

What would be an example of the views, just quickly, on the extreme left or the extreme right? I mean, would one view be, for example, actually we should not be using energy at all.

00:36:15 – 00:36:38

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Yeah. So, an extreme view would be, I don't believe that there should ever be any oil and gas anymore. It should be completely eliminated from the energy mix. Whereas an extreme view from an opposite perspective might be, we don't care about the environment. Who cares about emissions, go crazy, it doesn't matter. So that's what I mean about it.

00:36:39 - 00:36:41

Lance Mortlock

It’s not constructive.

00:36:42 – 00:38:19

Tracey Bodnarchuk

It’s not constructive and also, from a very practical perspective, it is also not financially viable to just survey everybody. You need to be focused.

I think the other thing too, is that, we speak to the composition of our audience also on our board. Our board is in Ontario, Alberta and British Columbia, and we have all political stripes within our board. And I can tell you that when we were in the federal election, for example, it can get spicy. Because everybody's got a sense of urgency about what's happening, may want to see a certain outcome, but that's not the outcome or the urgency that we see as an organization.

Our purpose is to be in front of all policymakers. When we have met in the past with policymakers that may not agree with or have aligned perspective on energy policy, I will often get the comments that you can get a question to say whatever you want it to say, or somehow the conversation might turn to the safety of women in camps, or issues that might be related to energy but not directly related to us and our mandate. And if we're meeting with policymakers that are more favourable to energy policy that's more balanced, then you might have questions around the “why”: why women think the way they think and understanding motivations more.

00:38:20 – 00:38:36

Lance Mortlock

 My next question is, as we look towards the future, what does success look like for your organization and what specific changes would you like to advocate to better support women's voices and participation in policy reform?

00:38:37 - 00:40:05

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Well, success for us looks like to put it in some marketing language, brand and reputation. And what I mean by that is, if there is some important discussions that are happening with government or with policymakers, we would like for somebody to be saying, where is Canada Powered by Women on that? What does CPW think? Because that means it's an understanding and recognition of who we represent, because we want to be the un-ignorable voice of women, and that means that we are in, our perspectives that we represent are taken into consideration when policy’s being reformed or developed.

So, we're finding that getting at those tables is really important. And that's our focus right now, is making sure people know who we are, know who we represent. And we would like to be able to say that's balanced policy, that we were invited to committee. We were part of a roundtable discussion because we brought that perspective and it lent itself to impacting that policy. We don't say whether a policy should or shouldn't be. We don't weigh in on the details of a policy because that's a lobbying effort. We're doing advocacy, and we would like to be known for that voice of women.

00:40:06 – 00:40:10

Lance Mortlock

What's the difference between advocacy and lobbying, for our listeners?

00:40:11 – 00:40:56

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Yeah. So, for lobbying, lobbying is pretty specific to commenting that whether a policy should be or should not be. If you were talking about something like the emissions cap, you might even get into the technicalities of it. Well, maybe the emissions cap should equal this or that. We don't do that. What we would do is translate and come into a meeting and talk about how affordability, for example, is that women see policy as making their life harder, or that women see policy as not aligning with their priorities. So that's kind of a distinction for us where we're like, we're going to give this to you, you take this into consideration, but we're not going to tell you what to do.

00:40:57 – 00:40:59

Lance Mortlock

So, you're not helping shape policy in some way.

00:41:00 – 00:41:06

Tracey Bodnarchuk

We are informing policy and the impact of policy on women.

00:41:07 – 00:41:08

Lance Mortlock

Right. Are you optimistic?

00:41:09 – 00:41:51

Tracey Bodnarchuk

I am, and the reason I say that is, I mean, whether you like Donald Trump or not, he forced a conversation that we were not having as Canadians for a long time.

And through our work, we know that there was conversation happening amongst women. But there's a national dialogue that we are having, and we weren't having it before. I mean, I don't envy Prime Minister Mark Carney. He has some very tough things that he's dealing with, but at least he's navigating them. And having conversations that nobody was having.

00:41:52 – 00:41:58

Lance Mortlock

He’s been to Alberta quite a bit since he took over as prime minister.

00:41:59 - 00:42:42

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Yeah, we met him at Stampede, just like met him at an event. And he was very gracious, and he sure is statesmanlike, and I was completely impressed. So, I am optimistic because I also think he's a businessperson and he understands financial issues and economy. So, I feel hopeful about that. And I also feel hopeful for the opposition, because a lot of the things they talked about, in their platforms in the election, and that they'll keep talking about are on the radar right now. And I think that's positive for our country.

00:42:43 - 00:43:01

Lance Mortlock

Before we conclude, is there any anything else that we didn't touch on? Any other thoughts or insights you'd like to share about CPW, or anything that you're working on? Anything that’s important for our listeners, which are primarily energy listeners, across the country, that they should know.

00:43:02 – 00:44:05

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Well, I think I would just emphasize that the more we talk to people outside of Alberta, the more we talk to people outside of our paradigm who are open, the better. Because people know things are off. People understand economic issues, but they don't need six feet of information to understand the role that energy plays in that. You know, just enough. And that people have way more common ground than what is portrayed. And so, I think the momentum right now is super important. We're building a movement. And the more people talk about our work and join our network, which is free, you just go to our website and join the community. You'll get in the flow of information. But we need to keep up the momentum and the pressure for continued dialogue that's constructive.

00:44:06 – 00:44:08

Lance Mortlock

So how do people get more information? Where should they go?

00:44:09 – 00:44:50

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Well, as I said, if you go to our website, first of all, we list all of our research off there. And we also publish a newsletter called Perspectives, and we publish it every two weeks. Our readership opens, we have 40% to 60% open rates on everything we publish. We keep it quick. We keep it succinct, and we do a lot of explaining. For example, not a sexy topic, but we are going to dig in a little bit to methane in the next while. And women want to understand this stuff. So, it's a great way to get into the flow. And of course anyone can reach out to me via you or directly and via LinkedIn if they'd like to get involved in our work.

00:44:51 – 00:45:38

Lance Mortlock

 For sure. Well, thank you for sharing your time and insights. I think what you're trying to do is really important to the dialogue and important to help, you know, in helping shape transformation and change that we desperately need as a country.

You know, we're at this pivotal moment. And I think the voice that you bring representing women across the country is massively important to shaping policy, shaping regulation and hopefully shaping a better economy, a more sustainable economy at the same time, and more balanced views at the table. So, thanks for everything that you do. It's important.

00:45:39 - 00:45:43

Tracey Bodnarchuk

Thank you for your support. I really love working with you and I appreciate it.

00:45:44 – 00:47:35

Lance Mortlock

So, for our listeners, we encourage you to reflect on today's discussion and share your thoughts with us. You can reach out to EY via the attached contact details or join the conversation on social media. Finishing another great episode, I'd like to share a few final messages:

One, empowering women drives innovation. Women's voices are essential to Canada's energy future. By enabling opportunities for women in the energy sector, I think we strengthen innovation, enhance decision-making and build organizational resilience. And diverse perspectives are crucial for addressing the complex challenges and driving sustainable solutions, which Tracey talked about today.

Collaboration, number two, is essential for change. Systemic change in the energy sector requires collaboration across industry, government and communities. Partnerships among policymakers, industry leaders and grassroot organizations can accelerate cultural shifts, strengthen trust, and ensure that Canada's energy transition benefits from a wide range of talents and perspectives, including, importantly, women. The time is now for collective action.

We are at a pivotal moment. And I've said this for a while and the discussion around the energy policy, it is crucial for all of us to activate and share our perspectives on what we need from an energy policy perspective to sustain our standard of living and drive growth.

Together, we can shape a future that not only supports women's advancement, but also ensures a resilient and sustainable energy landscape for all Canadians. Once again, thank you for joining our podcast. We'll see you at the next episode.