Décupler l’efficacité de la main‑d’œuvre : stratégies d’optimisation de la productivité par rapport aux coûts

Anne Stevenson: [00:00:00] Hello everyone. Welcome to our webinar today on unlocking Workforce Effectiveness, Strategies for Optimizing Productivity to Cost. We're so glad that you have taken time out of your day to join us. Before I introduce my fellow presenters, I just want to let you know that this session is being recorded and will be shared with all the participants after the webcast. And also, we want to hear from you. So, please feel free to put your questions and post them in the chat and we will try to answer as many as we can towards the end of the webinar. So, let's have a little look at the agenda and what we are covering today. So, a little bit of an introduction. You're going to hear from the three of us that will be speaking to you today about who we are and what our roles are here at EY. We will then have a panel discussion. We are trying to keep this interactive between the three of us in order to give you a great wealth of information across this topic. And then at the end, we'll have time for questions. So, without further ado let's hear who you will be hearing from today. So, my name is Anne Stevenson. I am a partner in workforce advisory based in Calgary, Alberta. I do a lot of work with clients in the talent, space, culture, behavior change, organization design, and workforce effectiveness is one of the areas that I'm passionate about. So, looking forward to talking with you about that today. Michelle.

Michelle Moonsammy: [00:01:37] Hi. I'm Michelle Moonsammy. I'm a partner in our Workforce Advisory Practice, leading people consulting in British Columbia. I, together with Anne, kind of work along the people value chain. And I've worked over the last 25 years in large scale organizational transformation, focusing on all aspects from a people perspective around organizational change. Really nice to discuss this key topic today with you all.

Anne Stevenson: [00:02:07] Fantastic. Marvin.

Marvin Reyes: [00:02:09] Hi everyone. My name is Marvin Reyes. I am the Compensation Consulting Leader for Canada here at EY based in Toronto. I have over 15 years of experience providing consulting support to organizations in both the public and private sector on a number of different areas, including compensation reviews, to job evaluation studies, pay equity reviews, total rewards assessments, to name a few. I have a very deep passion also for helping organizations in solving their compensation and total rewards issues and determining the right approach for them to unlock the potential and effectiveness from their workforce. So, happy to be here and looking forward to today's presentation.

Anne Stevenson: [00:02:48] Thanks, Marvin. And just before we get started, I'm just going to give you a little bit of an overview on the key topics that we're covering today. So, those include workforce effectiveness, structured approach and driving the desired return on your people investment and how to lift the effectiveness of your workforce, sustainable optimization, maintaining a future oriented perspective while addressing immediate workforce challenges. And we are looking at all of this through a rewards lens as well with Marvin’s expertise. So, we're really going to have a balanced view of your talent agenda through the lens of workforce effectiveness, together with your reward and benefit options that and levers that you can pull. So, heading right into our panel discussion. So, our first question today that we're going to be discussing is how do you define workforce effectiveness, and why is it crucial for organizations in today's competitive landscape. So, just before we dive into that I'm going to talk a little bit about recognizing the global trends and the workforce challenges that are driving cost right now in our environment. So, many of the things on this slide will not be a surprise to you. But really, what we're wanting to do is set the scene of the pressures and challenges that we know are being faced by organizations today, that there are global trends that are impacting us here in Canada, a global recession. The inflation rates will not be a surprise to any of you mentioning those that it's putting pressure on return and investment. There's significant volatility in energy prices, which particularly here in Alberta, we feel there are the wider macroeconomic stage and issues that are exacerbating geopolitical tensions leading to a highly uncertain range of outcomes. So, some of the workforce challenges that we see that appear during times like this with a lot of these trends is that there is a focus by organizations on the highest value work, so organizations can release value from structures and roles that are not optimized for today or for the future. There's wage inflation, so rising costs are driving higher employee reward expectations. Pay, as we have seen emerge during the pandemic and has continued to stay, is the number one driver for attrition, followed by career advancement and flexibility. So, you can just see that in the graph on the side of the slide there. So, previous to the pandemic, we had not seen increased total pay be the number one reason that people stay or leave an organization. And so, that has something been something that emerged during the pandemic and has remained. There is also a scarcity of talent. So, there's a tight labor market and increasing demand for key skills. And that is resulting in a review of upskilling internal mobility, location and outsourcing. So, there is really a key picture of things that is coming together, which is organizations are wanting to find how to make their workforce as effective as possible while dealing with a workforce that is expecting that has increased pay expectations and making it hard to find people that are able to fulfill that focus on the highest value work. So, with that scene setting, I'd love to move on to the next slide. And Michelle would love to hear your perspective on workforce effectiveness, and the holistic picture in an organization.

Michelle Moonsammy: [00:06:58] Thanks, Anne. I mean, you know, when we consider workforce effectiveness, we really look at the holistic picture. So, we look at how well an organization's workforce performs and contributes to its overall goals and objectives. And as you can imagine, that's pretty broad across the spectrum. So really, in the context of the triggers for cost transformation, which we know most of our clients and, you know, are really focused on right now, we really look at a number of factors that that we consider holistically when we look at workforce effectiveness. So, things like productivity, it's not just about volume, but really also about quality and value of outputs in the most effective manner. Looking at efficiency, identifying and eliminating inefficiencies in workflows, processes can really reduce and reduce waste and improve productivity without necessarily requiring a significant financial investment. We look at capability, and that is both from an organizational capability perspective and thinking through functions that organizations, you know, may need to set aside or may need to think about introducing into the future but also looking at capability of employees and looking whether or not employees possess the right skills. The knowledge and abilities to perform their jobs effectively. We also look at issues around leadership. We know that leadership performs an absolutely critical role in terms of success around how employees perform, how effective the organization is at achieving its objectives and goals. And so really looking at leadership and management and the effectiveness there of in guiding, supporting training and motivating teams. Engagement and motivation is absolutely critical, even with taking out cost, even with looking at some of what we would call our hard triggers like org structures, roles processes, etc. Really, if the engagement and motivation is there in terms of level of commitment of our employees, we know that that can significantly impact effectiveness, efficiency, overall performance, and retention of staff. Flexibility and adaptability. The ability of employees to cope with the sheer rate of change coming at them and to adapt to that change, ultimately, is also truly impacting effectiveness. We know that organizations across the board are feeling completely overwhelmed with the rate of change, and really, it's about how we think about that and really make that a key muscle in the organization in order to stay competitive in the changing markets that we face. And then lastly, but not least, technology and infrastructure, we know having the right tools, processes and the environment is critical to support and enhance effectiveness and the work being done by the organization. So, essentially, it's about maximizing the potential of the workforce to ultimately achieve the optimal results that you're seeking as an organization. Now, a critical part of that is the reward side, and I'm going to hand off to Marvin to talk to us a little bit about how we look at total reward in the context of workforce effectiveness. Marvin.

Marvin Reyes: [00:10:25] Perfect. Thanks, Michelle. Yeah. When addressing workforce effectiveness organizations, can't address this issue and derive solutions without determining how to effectively utilize and maximize its total rewards programs and offering. And when we talk about total rewards, we're covering all elements. So, things like compensation, traditional benefits offerings, retirement and savings, perquisites, well-being initiatives, and even things like culture and purpose. The elements that make up a total rewards offering not only serve the sole purpose of rewarding employees, but they serve a number of other purposes that are extremely important for organizations to focus on as well. From an attraction and retention perspective, this really speaks to attracting and retaining top talent through the provision of compensation and benefits packages that are competitive, that both conform to market norms and cater to the diverse needs of its employees. When we're thinking about engagement and motivation through the implementation of meaningful rewards and recognition programs, organizations can create a sense of value, engagement, and motivation to enable employees delivering their best performance at the end of the day. Performance and productivity. So, how do organizations further enhance the skills and progression of its workforce? By providing interesting and exciting opportunities in combination with linking rewards to individual and team performance. And then at the end of the day, cost effectiveness needs to be top of mind as well. So, how to best balance the cost of total rewards programs and financial sustainability of the organization while remaining competitive in the market? What is the best way to allocate resources to maximize the return on investment of its Total Rewards program? To help address these matters, organizations will focus on its employee value proposition to ensure that the rewards offering to its employees is meaningful and appropriate, and by doing this, it demonstrates to employees the organization's commitment to them by providing a appealing environment to come work at. Ensuring that attraction and retention are top of mind and critical, and that the organization is adapting and staying relevant in today's market. It takes a lot of effort for organizations to do this, and typically when organizations go through a process like this, they focus on the three R's of EVP. That's essentially reviewing the current offering to identify strengths, weaknesses, areas for improvement, rebalancing resources, and total rewards offerings to ensure the right elements are being focused on, and then resettling the EVP by taking in multiple perspectives to better understand what areas of the package to focus on. With. Fantastic.

Anne Stevenson: [00:13:31] Thanks, Marvin. So, now that we've set the scene for you with the foundation or the groundworks of what the levers you could draw on for optimizing workforce effectiveness. How can we actually optimize workforce effectiveness while preparing for growth? In this webinar, we wanted to give you both the micro and macro view of workforce effectiveness organizations. Those the trends that you are seeing are similar. Those will be impacting your organization in different ways. So, really what we want to do now is talk practically through some of the levers that you may be experiencing. Where we see the most impact from those levers, and hopefully help to equip you with some ideas and thoughts on where your organization may be able to focus and the levers that you may be able to pull. So, just from a panel perspective, Michelle and I are going to be talking through this slide together and really just having a discussion about what we see pulling on a couple of the areas. And then Marvin will do a deeper dive again into the reward area, pay and benefit optimization. So, overall, for this slide, what you're really looking at is short, medium and long term levers that you could pull in your organization to realize work and improve your workforce effectiveness. So, really what this is, it's about a balance of the outputs that your people are able to produce while managing the cost pressures on your organization. And really, you want to think about this with the end in mind. This is all about ensuring that your organization is sustainable and future proofed, and that you are not sacrificing in the short term and unable to achieve your objectives in the long term. And we believe that you are able to balance both. So, I'm just going to provide a little bit more of an overview of this slide. And then I'll ask you, Michelle, to provide a few thoughts on the areas that you really see are most impactful for organizations. So, in the release value area we're really seeing, and you can see those percentages there, that's really equating to where we think basically you get your most useful and productive outcomes for the organization for your focus. Not saying it's the easiest, but we see great improvements in workforce effectiveness by focusing on the areas with the higher percentages. So, managing vacancies, managing poor performers, managing your contingent workforce. So, you really want to strike the right balance between permanent and temporary workers. You want to do the right work in the right locations. You want to drive to a higher performing organization by removing poor performers. And as Marvin will talk to, optimizing total reward. In the optimize phase, it's really looking at, great, now that you've addressed some of the areas where perhaps performance isn't happening, where it needs to, where are the areas given where your organization is headed in the future, that capabilities may no longer be required, or that you have shadow organizations or duplicative functions. So, you may have learning and development in three different areas of the organization. Are there ways that you could bring those processes and sub functions together to find efficiencies in your organization? And then we head into the future proof side of the world, which generally is a slightly longer-term view. There we're starting to talk about AI, automation. What are the roles that could be automated or where AI could provide benefit in your organization? How could you optimize your outsourcing? What roles do you do in-house and what roles do you buy in from the outside or borrow? Optimize offshoring, internal mobility and reskilling, and looking at hybrid and flexible working. So, Michelle, when you're thinking and talking with clients about the levers that they can pull in their organizations, what are some of the key areas that you generally find organizations are focused on and that where they find success to improve their workforce effectiveness?

Michelle Moonsammy: [00:18:20] So, at the moment and I mean, and we could see this coming for a while. But where our clients are focused at the moment is on, I would say three key things. Number one is looking at the operating model and organizational structures or aspects from really looking at the business capabilities that are needed in order to achieve your target ambitions. And really looking at the cost triggers around that in that broader context. So, not really just pulling on cost levers in the short term without truly thinking through the longer-term impact of pulling those levers. And we know that when we do those, when we do that, ultimately it does impact an organization's ability to truly sustain and scale growth into the future. So, operating model and org structure is certainly one of the key aspects that we are focusing on. The second is future skills and competencies required to deliver against the organizational strategy and ambition and addressing existing skills gaps of the workforce on the one hand, and then identifying what needs to be built, borrowed, bought in order to really plug the capabilities that are needed in the organization into the future. And then lastly again, massive focus for every organization at the moment is unleashing the power of technology and artificial intelligence. And so, you know, if we look at those three aspects, and I really kind of focus on operating model and reskilling our workforce. When we're looking at operating model and org structures, yes. You know, when we look at when we look at the short term drivers all the way through to the future proofing of our organization, we do know that you can release immediate value in the short term by looking at tightening up role spans, layers and, you know, kind of what you would call your lower hanging fruit in organizational structure like vacant and non-critical roles. But ultimately, it's about focusing on the roles that will no longer exist or will may need to be shifted in order truly to achieve your future strategy. So, when making the decisions, it's always with that future mindset and that future lens on in terms of what's needed for future proofing and scalable and sustainable growth. We know that many organizations right now are also looking at an analysis of spans and control and organizational layers in order to release value. There are a number of different aspects to consider here with such an analysis. While norms exist for spans within an organization, the norms vary based on differences in business units, the type of work being performed, the complexity and similarity of the work. And that is also further complicated by critical issues like collective bargaining agreements. So, we know with unionized positions, for example, it may require additional constraints on the analysis, on timeliness or changes to win roles and structures or can actually be made. In terms of spans of control, the size of the organization is not always a correlating factor. Instead, the span differences are normally associated with the nature and the type of work to be performed by employees and those that are supervising in different layers of management of those employees. Important considerations that we see with the layers analysis are things like extent of change or the dynamic nature of change at the organization is facing. If change is high, this usually calls for a narrower span of control because there's so much coming at people and this huge sense of overwhelm in order truly to address and adopt the change that is coming at them. Job complexity and variety or broadness of responsibility. Again, if this is high in terms of complexity, really, you know, we look at a narrower span of control. The amount of coordination that may be needed between employees is also a critical aspect that needs to be looked at overall. Culture plays a significant role, in terms of how we look at spans and layers, because ultimately it really does drive particular organizational culture attributes and traits. And so, really thinking through all aspects of what may impact these kinds of conversations and decisions are absolutely critical. And examination of your operating model, if you start to look at that kind of, you know, medium term to long term going into the future proof, looking at the operating model more broadly and focusing on the business capabilities with the future lens, allows you to really assess the options of removing no longer required functions, as you said Anne, so really looking at where you've got the shadow organizations or functions or where you know, that, you know, ultimately looking into your future based on your future ambition, there are some functions that you will no longer require. And so, it really is a cost benefit analysis for you to be looking at. Critical aspect in this as well, is the options for optimizing, outsourcing, offshoring, and then doing, again the cost benefit analysis of location for value and flexibility of where work gets delivered. Looking at streamlining process and deploying and enabling disruptive technology is always critical because it really does truly help you to operationalize and operating model and org structure and the changes that need to be done there. Very quickly. In terms of I can't stress enough in terms of how we think about the cost triggers that are coming at us. Really, for you to truly see success in an organization is to make sure that these decisions, and ultimately the transformations that you are undertaking are truly underpinned by humans at center. And we use that term in EY to say, we've got to think about our people in the organization and really, they need to form the critical anchor of the decisions that we're taking, ultimately to ensure sustainable success. But the rate of change that are coming at organizations roles are rapidly changing, and so are the skills and competencies required to be successful in those roles. So, this combined with talent shortages and the changes to our ways of working, means that reskilling the workforce will be a critical lever to be focused on in driving workforce effectiveness into the future. So, with all of those aspects, you know, really looking at it in terms of where the investments need to be made, what are the levers that make most sense given your future ambition? And then there's always trade-offs that have to be made. So, really thinking about all of those aspects along the spectrum will be absolutely critical. And I'm going to hand back to you so you can talk to us a little bit about that most important aspect of artificial intelligence and technology.

Anne Stevenson: [00:25:55] Thanks, Michelle. And thank you so much for diving into the spans and layers area as well as we saw on that slide. Spans and layers and the technology GenAI and automation are two of the areas where we see organizations can bring about the biggest workforce effectiveness gains for their organization. And really, this slide and this information draws on a couple of things that Michelle was just talking about. She was talking about keeping your people at the center of any transformation that is going on. And it's really about reskilling in the light of future proofing your organization. And GenAI is playing an increasingly greater role in that, whether it's in the minds of your employees, whether it's around your board table, whether it's what you as an organization are trying to grapple with about the role that AI will play within your organization and what that means for your people. We really wanted to bring this down to a little bit of a practical lens for you to say, okay, if one of the levers that I'm looking at pulling is around artificial intelligence, and it's how we use technology to improve the productivity of our workforce and think differently about reskilling our employees, what are the practical steps that we would take? So really, it's about preparing your employees. Are you talking to them about it? What is your ability to interact with generative AI and that determines its effectiveness? Your employees, whether you are governing it or not, are using ChatGPT right now within EY, we actually have our own AI tool called EYQ that enables our teams to interact with chat functionality in a way that is appropriate for us and our workforce and serving our clients. How can your people understand how prompt engineering can support their productivity? It's thinking about creativity. So GenAI is in that analytical thinking space. Creative thinking becomes an essential skill enabling employees to take GenAI output and enrich it. So, this is about humans managing the technical. Processes, so humans are still needed to manage what happens within GenAI. It's just that some of the more repetitive or analytical pieces of work can be done through GenAI. Think about risks. This is one of the reasons that EA has its own ChatGPT type tool. EYQ. Organizations need to think about risks around privacy, model training, deepfakes, hidden blazes are very, hidden biases, sorry, are very real and need mitigation strategies. Does your organization have a governance plan for what your employees are likely already doing, which is using GenAI to augment or assist in their day-to-day work? And then it's about helping to equip leaders, integration of generative AI into our work will further amplify the need for effective leaders, and Michelle touched on that earlier, that leaders are really the shoulders, that the success of your workforce effectiveness rises and falls on. So, do think about how you can equip your leaders. So, just a little practical piece off to the side there before I hand off to Marvin because we're going to dive deeper into the reward space is what would it look like to reinvent a job with GenAI. So, it can be used on its own or with humans in the loop? So, think about the task to be performed primarily by humans with low potential for automation, or augmentation. Think about the task to be fully automated and the tasks that are to be augmented. So, really you end up with few buckets. Your jobs that can only be done by humans. Your jobs that sit in the middle and need to be augmented. And your jobs, that and tasks that can be fully automated. And really, that's your first way to think about how to decompose a job into tasks and how to think where generative AI could have the most impact in your organization and help improve your workforce effectiveness. So, with that, we will do a little swap to our next question. And really, this is one for you, Marvin, to dive into, which is how are organizations prioritizing their total reward offering to address workforce effectiveness?

Marvin Reyes: [00:30:46] Great. Thanks. And yeah, great question for sure. It's, you know, to better understand how organizations are prioritizing their total rewards offering to address workforce effectiveness, it's first important to better understand some of the top concerns that employees are facing, which ultimately organizations are challenged with on how to address them. Emphasis on financial stability. So, it's no surprise here that, you know, as we've been hearing this quite a bit in the news lately, but with things like inflationary pressures on the rise, high cost of living, the economic uncertainty, employees are essentially grappling with both short term and long-term financial stability concerns, with probably more emphasis on the short term. What this is a resulting in essentially is employee effectiveness and productivity decreasing, as employees are probably spending more time trying to address these concerns and coming up with possible solutions, which actually may include looking for employment elsewhere. The second concern for employees fostering trust through pay transparency. We all know the importance of compensation to employees. We heard about it earlier on how it's kind of top of mind. It's essentially a foundational element to any total rewards offering, which is why it is more critical for organizations to get it right, essentially, as employees have more awareness about compensation. And there's also more publicly available data at their fingertips. The importance of this is also emphasized with certain legislation within Canada that puts pressure on organizations to get all of their ducks in a row, with legislation such as Pay Equity, Pay Transparency and others like Bill 124 and the BP SECA act for public sector workers. So, with all of this information that is more readily available and with certain legislation impacting employee’s compensation offering, it puts pressure on employees to ensure you know what they are receiving is fair and equitable. The third concern we've been hearing about, revamping work practices for well-being. So, organizations have done a great job over the last few years at addressing mental health concerns and employee well-being. You know, employees are still feeling the pressure of work life balance. They're still feeling exhausted, still feeling burnt out and frustrated, especially when it comes to the two other concerns I just spoke about. And lastly, one of the other main concerns we're hearing from employees, you know, although unleashing potential with AI and we've touched on a bit already about technology and AI, and all the organizations continuously try to comfort its employees, to let them know that, you know, AI is essentially not replacing them in the current workforce. Many still have job security concerns about technology advancements and what that will mean for their future employment. Although I will say that many do also see the benefit of how it could help with their workforce efficiency. If we move to the next slide. You know, by understanding employee concerns and what they value, which is essentially just one piece of the puzzle, it really helps organizations to start the process of reinventing their EVP, their Employee Value Proposition, by addressing elements of their total rewards offering that matter the most to employees. So, a holistic review of an organization's total rewards offering is pivotal when determining which elements to focus on that will not only enhance the EVP but will also help to unlock further the productivity and effectiveness of its workforce. You know, so when you think about total rewards offering, you can essentially break it down into three different areas. So, foundational to any total rewards offering is compensation and benefits. So, this is again traditional benefits and retirements. It is important. It is imperative for organizations to be competitive across these elements, to ensure employees feel that they are adequately rewarded for their contributions. However, to be over competitive is costly, which is why organizations will not typically go beyond its target positioning on these areas. So, that is where organizations will then focus on things like career and well-being to differentiate themselves in the market, but also provide a differentiated experience for its employees. So, promoting and differentiating items such as work life balance, training programs, career opportunities that will help individuals who are focused on redefining their professional aspirations. But it also show that organizations are invested in them and their long term success. And then finally, the purpose of an organization it can really create a unique experience for employees. So, for some, they will actually choose where they work, or whether they stay within the organization based on the purpose and how their contributions contribute to the larger goals of the organization. So, places like not for profits, charities. These are really great examples that create a meaningful EVP through purpose. One item that is not on here but has become more important these days, especially post pandemic. And we've heard this already. It's flexibility. You know, this is critical in any organization’s total rewards package. And what I would say, it probably falls in the foundational layer, where again, employees are looking at their employment, the organization they work for, and they may decide an organization that they may stay with or work for based on their work from home policies. But as you can see, you know, there are different elements that make up a total rewards offering that organizations can focus on to help unlock workforce effectiveness. It just needs to understand what are those right elements to invest in. Moving on to the next slide. You know, now that we know what concerns our top of mind for employees, you know, and how organizations can take a holistic review of their total rewards offering to help reinvent its EVP. You know, let's see kind of what the top priorities are for HR and see how that aligns to the employee concerns. One of the top priorities for HR that we've been hearing about is enhancing the EVP to attract and retain top talent. So, it's actually great to see this as a top priority for organizations as it addresses everything that we've already spoken about so far, and how organizations can effectively unlock employee workforce effectiveness by reviewing, redesigning and re-emphasizing its EVP by focusing on its total rewards elements and what employees truly value. Another priority. Investing more in benefits to improve physical and mental health. So, we did see this as a top concern for employees, and organizations are also feeling the pressure as well, to invest more in these areas to help address these concerns of their employees. So, by addressing these concerns, and again, it illustrates to employees about the organization's willingness to invest in them and areas that matter the most, which ultimately will help in having employees come to work that are more healthy, more engaged, and more motivated at the end of the day. Another HR priority. Improving workforce planning to better inform the buy, build and borrow strategy. So, determining the strategy of whether an organization would like to build or buy talent has an impact on other areas, such as what areas of the total rewards offering to focus on. This strategy doesn't need to be a blanket approach across the entire organization. It could really differ based on different segments within an organization's workforce. But conducting this type of workforce planning only helps organizations with addressing their EVP to be able to focus on the different elements, again that matter the most to employees. Redesigning work to incorporate AI and automation. As we've heard, employees are concerned about AI. Its advancement and what that ultimately means for their job. And while this is happening, organizations are trying to determine the best way to incorporate AI and automation in its workplace to make more effective and efficient at the end of the day. So, what this has yielded for organizations is they've started to think about how to approach and better utilize its talent. And we've heard it already through Anne and Michelle, some are conducting things like skills analysis amongst its current workforce to better understand the skills that employees have today, what is required for the future and where there are potential gaps. And then lastly, investing more in benefits related to retirement savings and financial well-being. So, we heard about this as being a top concern for employees’ financial stability short and long term. And organizations know this. So, they are determining are there ways that they can help their employees out to better invest in programs and offerings to address this. So, things like financial counseling, tax services, financial calculators, financial planning services, these are just different things that we've been hearing organizations think about and potentially invest in to really help employees focus on this area. Moving on to the next slide, and really thinking about innovative approaches that organizations are taking. We've seen employee concerns; we've seen HR priorities. And it's great to see that there's a lot of alignment between the two of them. We've seen kind of how organizations can approach holistically, taking a look at their total rewards offering. So, what are some innovative approaches that organizations are taking to address these different areas? And I will say that, you know, some of these are not innovative, but they're great to emphasize still that it's something to regularly do on a more frequent basis. So, when it comes to pay equity and pay transparency, compliance, you know, regular pay equity analysis really helps to address disparities and internal equity. Employers, I've heard some employers also focusing on complimenting pay transparency with career transparency as well to create stories around pay that are very current to the role and embed transparency and talent philosophy. So, it's great to really emphasize the whole pay equity and pay transparency notion here. Market reviews and salary structure updates. So, this isn't really an innovative approach, but it is one that really should be emphasized and conducted more frequently. And we're actually seeing a lot of organizations conducting this more frequently than in than in previous years. So, market reviews really help ensure that pay practices align with industry standards and benchmarks, and it also allows organizations to pinpoint any discrepancies and potential areas of pay inequity. Transparent salary structures, communication practices. Transparency has always been an interesting topic at organizations. They've always been hesitant to to share certain pieces of information. But as we've heard, it's become more topical with different pay equity and pay transparency legislation that has come into play. For some organizations providing training on fair pay practices and creating dialog with employees to gather feedback has become a way to address this. And by openly discussing things like market data, salary structures with employees, it promotes transparency amongst things like pay practices, and it also increases the trust and confidence amongst the workforce. However, the one thing I will caveat with that is it takes a lot of work to become transparent with an organization, and it's usually a longer journey than an overnight one. Holistic financial well-being strategy. Organizations, they can support financial priorities across a wide spectrum of financial solutions. So, I've talked about this already and it is a top priority of HR. So, really looking at helping employees manage their everyday finances, helping them prepare for long term financial goals such as retirement and so forth. Flexibility and wellness policies. So, we've heard some organizations and seen some organizations really focusing on providing choice and providing flexibility for their workforce. And they're looking at things like their time off policies, their hybrid work arrangements, and reviewing and implementing things around their benefit package that provides flexibility and choice there. And then the last thing, addressing technology and future of work. And this kind of ties in with transparency to, you know, employers can be more transparent. And we've seen some be more transparent around their change management and share more vision around how technology, how AI is really going to help shape the future of work and really engage employees within the process of redesigning work. So, these are just some things that we've been hearing amongst organizations in terms of how they're approaching some of these areas and some of these concerns and priorities.

Anne Stevenson: [00:45:10] Fantastic. Thanks so much, Marvin. And don't go too far. I'm going to get you to give a wrap up for the reward topic that you were speaking on before we move to questions. And Michelle and I will also provide some closing thoughts on the wider talent area. So, Marvin, what are the next steps your organization can take towards a more effective workforce? Could you please give us your closing next step thoughts on that from a reward perspective?

Marvin Reyes: [00:45:45] Yeah, definitely. And, you know, there are a number of different ways organizations can work towards a more effective workforce. And, you know, a few things I've seen organizations strive to achieve, along with what we typically would recommend as well. You've heard me talk about pay transparency, pay equity and other types of legislation. So, just legislative awareness and compliance is critical. So, organizations staying up to date on industry trends and any legislative developments that may impact their total rewards and compensation practices, it's going to be critical. So, again pay equity pay transparency Bill 124. Staying abreast of these developments will really help to ensure that the compensation and rewards practices are abiding to market requirements. Another one is just continuous market monitoring. I've mentioned this on the previous slide. More and more organizations are conducting more frequent market reviews and pulse studies on the market to better understand the movement, as many are seeing, including us, that the market is moving at a more quicker pace than in previous years. So, this is critical for organizations to do this to ensure that its compensation practices, its salary structure design, it remains competitive. As we've heard, compensation is foundational to any total rewards offering, and it is top of mind to employees and very meaningful to employees. The other thing that that we typically recommend and are seeing quite a bit of is employee engagement surveys. So, gathering feedback from employees on what they value within the organization and its total reward offering is one perspective to consider. But it's an important one. You know, some organizations are conducting these more frequently to better understand what employees like, what they don't like, but they're also embedding types of surveys where employees have to actually choose between different elements of the total rewards offering of what they value more. So, it's actually a hard choice instead of ranking certain elements. And what these surveys do, it actually helps to unlock an understanding of what areas organizations should focus on when it comes to total rewards. And then the last thing and I touched on this already comprehensive review and evaluation of a total rewards offering. So, while compensation and benefits tends to be the area that organizations focus on the most, and it is important to, it's also important to take a step back factor in multiple perspectives, such as the employee preference, employer priorities, market trends, and just the overall cost, and conduct a holistic review to better understand what areas to focus on. What areas will have a bigger return on investment as it relates to effectiveness in the workforce, and then developing a roadmap on how to address them and when to address them. So. Those are just some things to think about and some ways or organizations can address and what we recommend to the different ways organizations can move towards a more effective workforce at the end of the day.

Anne Stevenson: [00:49:08] That's awesome. Thank you so much, Marvin. And heading back out to a wider view now, of which rewards may very much be one of the areas that you determine your organization needs to focus on. And so, what steps do you take now? What are those steps to identify the workforce effectiveness potential in your organization? And how can they align to your key success factors, your outcomes? So, looking at what we have on this slide here, it really goes hand in hand with what Marvin has been talking about, what we called out in the roadmap slide earlier, this is about your organization considering what your future ambition and optimization opportunities are. Looking critically at where given your transformation drivers, you do think that there are some opportunities to look at the cost optimization cycle. Once you've identified those areas, it's thinking about what the design looks like for you over a period of time. And we talked about short term, medium term and long term. And really those time horizons are tied to where we see with organizations that if they focus on those areas over those time horizons, they do see cost optimization as well as the preservation of the outcome of workforce effectiveness. Because, as Marvin has talked a lot about, you need to remain with an engaged workforce, though you may be making some tough decisions along the way. And not last or least, you need a business case and a roadmap. So, once you've considered where your organization wants to go, what those detailed steps look like, how does that feed together into a business case and roadmap. So, it could be a subset of the slide that we showed you earlier, that you're picking 2 or 3 items to focus on out of there, that that will give your organization a return on investment while maintaining and engaged in productive workforce and will help you achieve your future focus. Michelle, can you please give a few thoughts on how you see this for organizations?

Michelle Moonsammy: [00:51:38] I mean, just to to wrap up, I would say that, you know, workforce effectiveness and truly achieving workforce effectiveness is not an event. It really is a road that you will walk as an organization and that you'll iterate over an extended period of time. We understand. We face it in our own organization around the cost pressures coming at us around the constant disruptive changes coming at us. And it's about taking a holistic view. It's about taking a longer-term view by really thinking through the future ambitions that we're seeking. And we want to become as an organization. Understanding within that context of that future view. What are the immediate levers to be pulled. And then when identifying those levers, truly thinking about your people, thinking about truly how you engage them, how you go back and you check in with them, how you are using your leaders and key SMEs in your organization who truly understand your organization. To assess the true value of the interventions that you're coming up with, even in the short term, and then thinking about that impact over the long term. I think, you know, just lastly is about making sure that you are supporting those detailed roadmaps with cost plans and very detailed engagement plans so that ultimately, you know, that the workforce is brought along the journey and that they remain engaged and that you are able to attract and retain staff into the future. So, those are the key things that that I would say to support both your and Marvin's views with support organizations practically as they think of this through.

Anne Stevenson: [00:53:35] Fantastic. Thank you, Michelle. And we do have time for a couple of questions that have come through from the audience. So, I am going to answer the first one, and then I have one for you, Michelle. And one for you, Marvin. So, great first question that has come through, which is, could I ask you to elaborate on the placement of hybrid flexible working? Why is that placed at the end of the long-term perspective? So, it was the last item in our three-part slide of short, medium, long term. It is very much a current theme in global organizations today from both an attraction and retention perspective. This is a fantastic question. I have worked a lot with organizations since returning from the pandemic in the new normal as it is around flexible hybrid working and the choices that organizations are making. So, the slightly different lens for where it is placed in this continuum is that it was an illustration of the potential benefits of people cost levers. So, really what we see with hybrid and flexible working is, though it is critical for your workforce, that is something that they're asking for and something that organizations need to grapple with, it doesn't come early in the cycle of looking at ways that organizations can be saving, addressing cost. So, what we're seeing is that it is a new way of working. It is something that your leaders definitely need to be equipped for. It is something that your organization needs to tackle, but it needs areas before it to be addressed. If you are truly focused on the cost optimization, while considering workforce effectiveness. So, that's why in this particular example, we do have it as a later piece down the road, is that its effectiveness in terms of playing into the cost optimization picture is not as high as some of the other items that we mentioned. Michelle, any thoughts on that?

Michelle Moonsammy: [00:55:42] No, not specifically. Okay.

Anne Stevenson: [00:55:44] No problem. I will ask you the second question then. So, how do you see culture influencing the span and layers, example, Europe versus North America?

Michelle Moonsammy: [00:55:57] Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say that, you know, from a geographical perspective, we've seen vast differences in culture and how it impacts spans and layers. I think it is certainly, you know, there are different triggers that are impacting organizations depending on where they are in the world. But certainly, from an organizational culture perspective, we find that organizations that are founded on hierarchy have a lower risk tolerance and have a lower risk tolerance, tend to have smaller spans of control and higher levels of management and supervision of their employees. So, decision making, accountability and ultimately trust in organizational culture plays a significant role in the org design process there. And then, you know, you see on the other end of the spectrum where you've got those organizations that are driving, you know, true agile ways of working. And you see that with many of our technology organizations where they tend to have flatter organizational structures, wider spans of control, they encourage team-based decision making and collaboration and ultimately drive the innovation and entrepreneurial cultural trends or attributes. And those, you know, those attributes from a cultural perspective really do impact how organizations design the organizational structures and operating models. So, you know, we don't see massive differences between North America and Europe. What I can say, having worked in Europe over the last number of years before moving to Canada, is that, you know, the true sheer impact of the changes and the just the pace at which they've had to address it. We've seen them addressing it faster than I've seen out in Canada, as an example. So, you know, we really have got a lot of lessons learned from our teams that are working globally but essentially that's what we're seeing from a cultural perspective.

Anne Stevenson: [00:58:14] Fantastic. Thank you so much. And I am conscious of time. We are coming up against the hour. So, we will wrap it up there. There were a couple of other questions that came through. However, we would love to answer those questions for you. You will receive a recording with the details of myself, Michelle and Marvin in the next 2 to 3 days. Please feel free to reach out to us with your questions. And ask us any other thoughts or questions that you have that come up if you weren't able to get them answered right now. So, there will be a short survey that's going to pop up momentarily. We'd appreciate it if you take a moment to complete that. A reminder as well that there will be future webinars. So please keep an eye out for those future webinars as we continue to explore the trends and insights into the topics that are influencing and shaping the People Agenda. Again, thank you so much everyone for taking the time to join our discussion today. I really enjoyed it. It was a big topic. I feel like we barely scratched the surface, but hopefully there's some really practical things that you were able to take away today. Thank you to our presenters and to our team supporting. Thanks so much, everyone. Have a great rest of your day.